What kinds of bags do you use?

Hilde · July 12, 2007

I plan to bag my tomatoes next year to get pure seeds, and I wonder what kinds of bags you use when you do it?

What materials and how big are the bags? Do you have pictures? When do you put the bag on and can you reuse it, or do you have to clean it before reusing it?

I guess I could hand pollinate, but I don't know the difference between a male and a female flower!

A lot of questions, and if they have been asked before, I apologize.

Hilde

**nctomatoman** · July 12, 2007

Hi, Hilde - I've used squares of Reemay, but that was years ago. You don't have to bag to get a pretty good chance of pure seed. It really is all about knowing your bees, when they are active, and saving fruit set when insect activity is very low. This way, I get about 95% purity - even when planing 80 varieties in close quarters.

Others, who do bag, I am sure will have suggestions if you choose to go that route

bcday · July 12, 2007

I use party favor bags from WalMart. They come in two sizes and I use either size depending on which one better fits the blossom cluster. The smaller ones are 3"x4" and the larger ones are 4 1/2"x 6". They have a drawstring at the top, they are easy to get on and off, and last for several seasons. They are made of a lightweight very fine mesh fabric, probably nylon.

You can also use a piece of row cover material (Reemay), tulle, or old pantyhose tied onto the stem with a twist tie. Do not use cheesecloth, believe it or not the holes in cheesecloth are too big. Small insects can get through holes that size and cross-pollinate the flowers.

Put the material over the blossom cluster before the buds open and leave it on until the blossoms dry up and you can see tiny green pea-size fruit. When you take the bag off, tie a short piece of bright yarn or something around the stem of the fruits that set while inside the bag so you'll know later which fruits to save the seeds from.

I wash the bags before re-using because dust, plant debris and the sun make the fabric stiff, so I get the gunk off and rinse them out in fabric softener to make them easier to handle.

Hand-pollinating won't prevent cross-pollination by insects unless you pull all the petals off the flower before the petals show color so that insects aren't attracted to it. Otherwise if a bee brings pollen from another plant, it will just be added to the pollen you put on yourself so you could still get a cross.

dice · July 12, 2007

"difference between a male and a female flower"

Tomato flowers are both male and female in the
same flower:

http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/agronomy/tomato/flranat.html

Hilde · July 12, 2007

Thanks guys!

I think I will bag, because I do not know my bees. I am just grateful for them. How can you know when they are not active? Aren't they around constantly until the late fall? I still see my bees around where there are flowers.

Nylon or Reemay. Where do they sell Reemay? At the Home Depot? The nylon favor bags sounds easy!

Thanks for the link, Dice!

Hilde

dice · July 13, 2007

De nada.

The male part in those photos, the "stamens", are
also referred to as "anther cones", where the individual
pollen carrying tubes are the "anthers".

Hilde · July 13, 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

De nada.

The male part in those photos, the "stamens", are
also referred to as "anther cones", where the individual
pollen carrying tubes are the "anthers".

I think I understand now. Just use a paint brush and swipe the anthers where there will be pollen and then swipe the stigma and pollen will stick to it? That doesn't sound too hard!

dice · July 14, 2007

Well, that might work, but if you chose an immature
bud to open up and remove the anthers from (so that
it has not already been self-pollinated), then the stigma
(tip end of the female pistil) may not be ready yet to
receive pollen. Might have to let it sit a couple of days
before doing that. I would probably try once as soon as
I had trimmed it, again a few days later on the same bud
with more pollen from the same parent, and maybe again
a third time a few days after that.

The traditional way to do it requires a lot of anthers:
you pick off anthers, dry them, shake the pollen out
of them through a fine-mesh screen, then dip the
pistils of the trimmed buds in the pollen, coating the
pistil like a chicken fried steak coated in flour.

Note that if you want fruit from the buds that contributed
the anthers, too, that may or may not have been self-pollinated already when you picked the anthers (good
chance that all of the handling accomplished that),
you can go back and do the same thing to those buds
after you have done the cross-pollination.

None of that is necessary to just get self-pollinated,
not crossed fruit on a plant, though. All that you need
to guarantee that are the bagged blossoms and some
judicious stem-thumping, plant shaking, stem buzzing
with an electric toothbrush, or wind (to make sure that
some pollen shakes out onto the pistil of as many open
flowers as possible).

A document describing how hybrid seed is produced
manually, with pictures (pdf):

http://www.avrdc.org/LC/tomato/seedhybrid.pdf

July 12, 2007	#1
Hilde Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pendleton, NY Posts: 256	What kinds of bags do you use? I plan to bag my tomatoes next year to get pure seeds, and I wonder what kinds of bags you use when you do it? What materials and how big are the bags? Do you have pictures? When do you put the bag on and can you reuse it, or do you have to clean it before reusing it? I guess I could hand pollinate, but I don't know the difference between a male and a female flower! A lot of questions, and if they have been asked before, I apologize. Hilde

July 12, 2007	#2
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Hi, Hilde - I've used squares of Reemay, but that was years ago. You don't have to bag to get a pretty good chance of pure seed. It really is all about knowing your bees, when they are active, and saving fruit set when insect activity is very low. This way, I get about 95% purity - even when planing 80 varieties in close quarters. Others, who do bag, I am sure will have suggestions if you choose to go that route __________________ Craig

July 12, 2007	#4
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	"difference between a male and a female flower" Tomato flowers are both male and female in the same flower: http://sanangelo.tamu.edu/agronomy/tomato/flranat.html __________________ -- alias

July 13, 2007	#6
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	De nada. The male part in those photos, the "stamens", are also referred to as "anther cones", where the individual pollen carrying tubes are the "anthers". __________________ -- alias

July 14, 2007	#8
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Well, that might work, but if you chose an immature bud to open up and remove the anthers from (so that it has not already been self-pollinated), then the stigma (tip end of the female pistil) may not be ready yet to receive pollen. Might have to let it sit a couple of days before doing that. I would probably try once as soon as I had trimmed it, again a few days later on the same bud with more pollen from the same parent, and maybe again a third time a few days after that. The traditional way to do it requires a lot of anthers: you pick off anthers, dry them, shake the pollen out of them through a fine-mesh screen, then dip the pistils of the trimmed buds in the pollen, coating the pistil like a chicken fried steak coated in flour. Note that if you want fruit from the buds that contributed the anthers, too, that may or may not have been self-pollinated already when you picked the anthers (good chance that all of the handling accomplished that), you can go back and do the same thing to those buds after you have done the cross-pollination. None of that is necessary to just get self-pollinated, not crossed fruit on a plant, though. All that you need to guarantee that are the bagged blossoms and some judicious stem-thumping, plant shaking, stem buzzing with an electric toothbrush, or wind (to make sure that some pollen shakes out onto the pistil of as many open flowers as possible). A document describing how hybrid seed is produced manually, with pictures (pdf): http://www.avrdc.org/LC/tomato/seedhybrid.pdf __________________ -- alias

July 12, 2007	#3
bcday Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY z5 Posts: 1,205	I use party favor bags from WalMart. They come in two sizes and I use either size depending on which one better fits the blossom cluster. The smaller ones are 3"x4" and the larger ones are 4 1/2"x 6". They have a drawstring at the top, they are easy to get on and off, and last for several seasons. They are made of a lightweight very fine mesh fabric, probably nylon. You can also use a piece of row cover material (Reemay), tulle, or old pantyhose tied onto the stem with a twist tie. Do not use cheesecloth, believe it or not the holes in cheesecloth are too big. Small insects can get through holes that size and cross-pollinate the flowers. Put the material over the blossom cluster before the buds open and leave it on until the blossoms dry up and you can see tiny green pea-size fruit. When you take the bag off, tie a short piece of bright yarn or something around the stem of the fruits that set while inside the bag so you'll know later which fruits to save the seeds from. I wash the bags before re-using because dust, plant debris and the sun make the fabric stiff, so I get the gunk off and rinse them out in fabric softener to make them easier to handle. Hand-pollinating won't prevent cross-pollination by insects unless you pull all the petals off the flower before the petals show color so that insects aren't attracted to it. Otherwise if a bee brings pollen from another plant, it will just be added to the pollen you put on yourself so you could still get a cross.