Bonnie's and Pink Brandywine

TomatoDon · April 25, 2008

Hi gang,

For the first time, I'm seeing Bonnie's offering "Pink Brandywine." I was curious about the strain, particularly if it was Sudduth's, emailed them, and this is the reply:

"Don: I have conferred with our seed purchaser and find that we get the seed for our Pink Brandywine Tomato from Seeds by Design. They list this tomato as probably being from the Ben Quisenberry collection, an old timer prized for its incredible flavor, medium to large size, 8-16 oz pink fruits, potato leaved- indeterminate plant that matures late in northern area, an Amish heirloom.

I find the Sudduth`s Strain is one developed by Ben Quisenberry who reportedly obtained the seed from Mrs. Doris Sudduth HIll who said it had been in her family since about 1900. So you see, we could be talking about the Sudduth strain."

No definitive answer on the strain, but I thought it was nice of the guy to actually research a little and offer the info he found. I thought some of you might be interested in what he said.

Don

rnewste · April 25, 2008

Hi Don,

I am growing a Pink Brandywine and by chance, a Brandywine Sudduth Strain side-by-side in the same container this year, so it will be interesting to compare production and taste between the two plants, under identical growing conditions.

Ray

TomatoDon · April 25, 2008

Ray, I Pink Brandywine from Bonnies? Cheff Jeff has a "Brandywine" and seems I saw another company selling a "Pink Brandywine." Am interested in your comparisons.

Thanks!

Don

**carolyn137** · April 25, 2008

Pink Brandywine is redundant b'c the fruit is pink, so Brandywine is correct.

There are Brandywines out there that are the Sudduth strain and are not Ided as being so b/c the lineage is not known.

And at this point I'd bet that there are Brandywines ( Suddth/Quisenberry) out there that aren't Sudduth.

If a supplier of either seeds or plants knows that they're offering the Sudduth strain then they should be IDing it as such.

Linda Sapp at TGS was pretty sure she was offering the Sudduth strain but that's not enough, so she got a known Sudduth strain and now offers that one.

I don't like to say it, but knowing Seeds by Design as I do and all the past problems with wrong varieties that they've distributed, they're wholesale, not retail, I wouldn't' put too much faith in what they have to say. Just my personal opinion.

Ray if you grow somethiong called a Pink Brandywine along side a KNOWN Sudduth, you may find a difference unless the Pink Brandwyine actually is also a Sudduth.

Ray, what difference(s) would you be looking for if you directly compared a Sudduth with one that isn't Sudduth?

rnewste · April 25, 2008

Hi Carolyn,

The source of my Brandywine Sudduth Strain was seed purchased from Victory Seed Co. As one of my original two seedlings "took a dirt nap" upon transplant, I found a plant labeled "Pink Brandywine" at our local Nursery. I do not know the seed source for this plant, however. Here are the two of them in their "condos" this morning. The leaves of both look absolutely identical.

Brandywine Sudduth .................................................. .........Pink Brandywine

Ray

jungseed · April 25, 2008

From past experience, I'd like to second Carolyn's comments.

**carolyn137** · April 25, 2008

Ray, the PL leaf form on both should look the same for that's not what the difference between Brandywine and known Brandywine (Sudduth) is.

TZ-OH6 · April 26, 2008

Is there any evidence that the Sudduth brandywine is amish? The Red brandywine is the amish one, right?

With so many brandywines out there (red, red potatoleaf, yellow, OTV, Black, "Original Black", Purple...) I don't think "Pink" Brandywine is redundant, its almost necessary. It would be nice to just drop the brandywine all together and go with the name "Sudduth's" for the real thing. The nomenclatural situation will get screwed up even more if the original Brandywine released by the seed companies way back when ever emerges from some obscure seedbank.

I'm unofficialy calling my red potatoleafs "Brandywine by Design". It sounds better than "Red Potatowine". I wonder if Seeds By Design even know what the parentage is of this one. Its kinda difficult to accidentally get a field full of red potatoleaf seed plants

**carolyn137** · April 26, 2008

[quote=TZ-OH6;97631]Is there any evidence that the Sudduth brandywine is amish? The Red brandywine is the amish one, right?

There is no documentation to show that Brandywine had an Amish origin but there is for Red Brandywine.

*****
With so many brandywines out there (red, red potatoleaf, yellow, OTV, Black, "Original Black", Purple...) I don't think "Pink" Brandywine is redundant, its almost necessary. It would be nice to just drop the brandywine all together and go with the name "Sudduth's" for the real thing. The nomenclatural situation will get screwed up even more if the original Brandywine released by the seed companies way back when ever emerges from some obscure seedbank.

******

The variety was first listed as Brandywine, not Pink Brandywine, and most folks come to understand that it's pink, so I'm comfotable with it being what it was initially called, and that's Brandywine.

You might want to go to Victory Seeds and read the article about the Brandywines ( excluding WWW's claim for the true Black Brandywine, ahem) and read the article that Craig wrote. He did the family ones of Brandywine RB and Yellow Brandywine and I furnished the info for the created ones and the ones that derived from X pollinations.

I've grown lots of varieties that I didn't know what the color was supposed to be and no info given and no clues from the name. It kind of goes with the heirloom territory as I see it.

No seedbank anywhere is going to be the source of anything called Brandywine. Article after article has been written about what might have been Brandywine, ranging from Burpee's claim it was Mikado to WWW's claim it was Johnson and Stokes but if you look at the picture and description in the original J and S catalog there's NO mention of color, and I could go on and on here about other claims that have been made, but won't.

******
I'm unofficialy calling my red potatoleafs "Brandywine by Design". It sounds better than "Red Potatowine". I wonder if Seeds By Design even know what the parentage is of this one. Its kinda difficult to accidentally get a field full of red potatoleaf seed plants.

****

No, SBD doesn't know what the PL RB is that they distributed, any more than they know what the RL so called RB is that they distributed and is listed at TGS.

feldon30 · April 26, 2008

I always refer to it as Brandywine (Pink) to imply that the pink part is redundant but I nonetheless include it because of the possible confusion.

moulman · May 1, 2008

Confusion??!!

There are so many people out there renaming and "creating" new varieties with the swipe of a pen, it borders on lunacy. It has gotten to the point that retailers can barely be trusted to provide a product as advertised.

April 25, 2008	#1
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	Bonnie's and Pink Brandywine Hi gang, For the first time, I'm seeing Bonnie's offering "Pink Brandywine." I was curious about the strain, particularly if it was Sudduth's, emailed them, and this is the reply: "Don: I have conferred with our seed purchaser and find that we get the seed for our Pink Brandywine Tomato from Seeds by Design. They list this tomato as probably being from the Ben Quisenberry collection, an old timer prized for its incredible flavor, medium to large size, 8-16 oz pink fruits, potato leaved- indeterminate plant that matures late in northern area, an Amish heirloom. I find the Sudduth`s Strain is one developed by Ben Quisenberry who reportedly obtained the seed from Mrs. Doris Sudduth HIll who said it had been in her family since about 1900. So you see, we could be talking about the Sudduth strain." No definitive answer on the strain, but I thought it was nice of the guy to actually research a little and offer the info he found. I thought some of you might be interested in what he said. Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

April 25, 2008	#3
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,523	Ray, I Pink Brandywine from Bonnies? Cheff Jeff has a "Brandywine" and seems I saw another company selling a "Pink Brandywine." Am interested in your comparisons. Thanks! Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

April 25, 2008	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Pink Brandywine is redundant b'c the fruit is pink, so Brandywine is correct. There are Brandywines out there that are the Sudduth strain and are not Ided as being so b/c the lineage is not known. And at this point I'd bet that there are Brandywines ( Suddth/Quisenberry) out there that aren't Sudduth. If a supplier of either seeds or plants knows that they're offering the Sudduth strain then they should be IDing it as such. Linda Sapp at TGS was pretty sure she was offering the Sudduth strain but that's not enough, so she got a known Sudduth strain and now offers that one. I don't like to say it, but knowing Seeds by Design as I do and all the past problems with wrong varieties that they've distributed, they're wholesale, not retail, I wouldn't' put too much faith in what they have to say. Just my personal opinion. Ray if you grow somethiong called a Pink Brandywine along side a KNOWN Sudduth, you may find a difference unless the Pink Brandwyine actually is also a Sudduth. Ray, what difference(s) would you be looking for if you directly compared a Sudduth with one that isn't Sudduth? __________________ Carolyn

April 25, 2008	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Ray, the PL leaf form on both should look the same for that's not what the difference between Brandywine and known Brandywine (Sudduth) is. __________________ Carolyn

April 26, 2008	#9
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	[quote=TZ-OH6;97631]Is there any evidence that the Sudduth brandywine is amish? The Red brandywine is the amish one, right? There is no documentation to show that Brandywine had an Amish origin but there is for Red Brandywine. *** With so many brandywines out there (red, red potatoleaf, yellow, OTV, Black, "Original Black", Purple...) I don't think "Pink" Brandywine is redundant, its almost necessary. It would be nice to just drop the brandywine all together and go with the name "Sudduth's" for the real thing. The nomenclatural situation will get screwed up even more if the original Brandywine released by the seed companies way back when ever emerges from some obscure seedbank. ** The variety was first listed as Brandywine, not Pink Brandywine, and most folks come to understand that it's pink, so I'm comfotable with it being what it was initially called, and that's Brandywine. You might want to go to Victory Seeds and read the article about the Brandywines ( excluding WWW's claim for the true Black Brandywine, ahem) and read the article that Craig wrote. He did the family ones of Brandywine RB and Yellow Brandywine and I furnished the info for the created ones and the ones that derived from X pollinations. I've grown lots of varieties that I didn't know what the color was supposed to be and no info given and no clues from the name. It kind of goes with the heirloom territory as I see it. No seedbank anywhere is going to be the source of anything called Brandywine. Article after article has been written about what might have been Brandywine, ranging from Burpee's claim it was Mikado to WWW's claim it was Johnson and Stokes but if you look at the picture and description in the original J and S catalog there's NO mention of color, and I could go on and on here about other claims that have been made, but won't. ** I'm unofficialy calling my red potatoleafs "Brandywine by Design". It sounds better than "Red Potatowine". I wonder if Seeds By Design even know what the parentage is of this one. Its kinda difficult to accidentally get a field full of red potatoleaf seed plants. ** No, SBD doesn't know what the PL RB is that they distributed, any more than they know what the RL so called RB is that they distributed and is listed at TGS. __________________ Carolyn

April 25, 2008	#2
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Hi Don, I am growing a Pink Brandywine and by chance, a Brandywine Sudduth Strain side-by-side in the same container this year, so it will be interesting to compare production and taste between the two plants, under identical growing conditions. Ray

April 25, 2008	#6
jungseed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pardeeville, WI Posts: 318	From past experience, I'd like to second Carolyn's comments.

April 26, 2008	#8
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 847	Is there any evidence that the Sudduth brandywine is amish? The Red brandywine is the amish one, right? With so many brandywines out there (red, red potatoleaf, yellow, OTV, Black, "Original Black", Purple...) I don't think "Pink" Brandywine is redundant, its almost necessary. It would be nice to just drop the brandywine all together and go with the name "Sudduth's" for the real thing. The nomenclatural situation will get screwed up even more if the original Brandywine released by the seed companies way back when ever emerges from some obscure seedbank. I'm unofficialy calling my red potatoleafs "Brandywine by Design". It sounds better than "Red Potatowine". I wonder if Seeds By Design even know what the parentage is of this one. Its kinda difficult to accidentally get a field full of red potatoleaf seed plants

April 26, 2008	#10
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	I always refer to it as Brandywine (Pink) to imply that the pink part is redundant but I nonetheless include it because of the possible confusion. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

May 1, 2008	#11
moulman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 68	Confusion??!! There are so many people out there renaming and "creating" new varieties with the swipe of a pen, it borders on lunacy. It has gotten to the point that retailers can barely be trusted to provide a product as advertised. __________________ No one ever learned a thing while they were talking.