Indoor Winter Tomato Project

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by OtterJon

So I went to the local Hydro shop the other day (to pick up some Fox Farms big bloom) and talked extensively to a fellow there who knew all about the types of troubles I have been having and his take?....Nutrient lockout due to the Well water I use on my plants. He said that they can't uptake nutrients due to the hard water, salts and iron I have going on. His suggestion was to go get the Reverse Osmosis stuff from those Culligan dispensers at the grocery store (NOT Distilled) I brought my own containers and got it for 25 cents a gallon. I also just today, changed my soil completely on all plants, as I had been using that slow release fertilizer, since the start, and now am just using the Fox Farms stuff. He said you need to do a flush on the plants next time you water, running about a gallon through each pot to help get the salts out. Personally I thought it would be just easier to change the soil and start fresh, so that's what I did. Found it interesting that you are having some of the same probs and now I find out you use well water too..hehe I asked why then can I use it on my outdoor plants with no problems, and he said that the outdoor soil has a flow to it and that salts don't build up the same way as in containers, in soilless mixes. So we will see how they do!..

Jon

All this "talk" of reverse osmosis and water salts and iron poisoning has me concerned. Do any of you *not* on well water take the added precaution of using distilled or RO water for feeding indoors? Is is it really worth the effort (and cost)? Sacramento water I've always been told is good stuff (for humans), though obviously the fluoride they're adding is having the less than desirable effect of increasing pH above neutral.

[rnewste]

Naysen,

Here are the seedlings as of today. A bit difficult to see, as I've got plants growing in the outside EarthTainers right behind the window (Circle-of-Life kind of thing).



Regarding lighting hours, for me this is more of a Winter hobby and distraction from the gloom. I will run the HPS lighting a set 3 hours per day from 5:00pm to 8:00pm, and with the plants in a large window with a southerly exposure to the Sun, last year most of the lumens were from the Sun, and not the (expensive) artificial light.

Even so, it probably cost me more than $10.00 per ripe tomato when it was all said and done, so not a great financial R.O.I. - - but as I indicated, the hobby aspect gave me something to keep occupied with during the Winter months.

Raybo

[artis]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

All this "talk" of reverse osmosis and water salts and iron poisoning has me concerned. Do any of you *not* on well water take the added precaution of using distilled or RO water for feeding indoors? Is is it really worth the effort (and cost)? Sacramento water I've always been told is good stuff (for humans), though obviously the fluoride they're adding is having the less than desirable effect of increasing pH above neutral.

Naysen,

I have grown tomatos in containers for several years using only tap water (pH around 8). pH of water can be adjusted by adding a tiny little bit of diluted sulfuric acid to the water before watering (a good hydro shop should carry it, or something similar). How much acid to add? Your pH meter will help you find out.

As Raybo mentioned, optimal pH for tomatos is around 6.5 with a feasible range around 5.0-7.5. pH 8.0 is too high and will cause nutrient defficiencies.

What is the pH in the soil where you are growing your tomatos? I would not automatically assume that it is 7.0. I have seen it as low as 5.0 initially but it always goes up during the growing season because the tap water has much higher pH.

[z_willus_d]

Ray,

Thanks for sharing. You're lucky to have such nice southerly exposure with that big window.

I find it best not to run the ROI analysis on these things. You're certain not to like the result. I rather prefer to stick my head in the Sunshine #4 mix and pretend all is well and right, even as the project I've spent the past year on at work evaporates overnight for reasons of too low R, or so say the marketers. All the more reason to have something back at home I can fall back to that's at least partially under my control (or so I'd like to believe). Sadly, this home project never pays out, it only takes in.

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by artis

Naysen,
What is the pH in the soil where you are growing your tomatos? I would not automatically assume that it is 7.0. I have seen it as low as 5.0 initially but it always goes up during the growing season because the tap water has much higher pH.

It's always a bit of an effort to pull out the pH meter, carefully use it, clean it and then get it back in its hibernation cave. But I thought all this discussion of pH on Sunshine #4 mix warranted a check. It turns out, 3 parts Sunshine #4 1 part Perlite (or just a bit over 1 part) is not neutral. That came as a (in this case) pleasant surprise.

The pictures taken a few minutes ago:
Pic1- My control. Here you see I'm still getting ~pH 8 for my tap.
Pic2- This is a Rosella Purple from my 3rd wave, the best. It's reading 6.73 pH, not bad.
Pic3- This is the moisture meter in the same Rosella Purple pot. Note the reading of around 2 in the "dry" region. This is where I try and target my moisture level, say between 2 and 4. I believe the high percentage of Perlite could be throwing off the reading, so that what registers as 2 is probably more like 4 or 5 for the "soil" portion of the medium. I water the pots yesterday to a level of ~4, which I'm assuming is more like 6-8. Sorry for the digression.
Pic4- This is a Tasmanian Chocolate Dwarf from my 3rd wave. It's reading 6.35 pH, though it's interesting to note the temperature of the soil was registering well below the Rosella, though they set next to one another on the tray. The pH meter is supposed to correct for temperature differences, but I suspect I might have got a slightly different reading had a I waited for the temperature to rise to the 70F ish that the soil is actually at.
Pic5- Here's my rack under lighting this late morning. You can just make out the humidity/temp reading at 52%/73.2F respectively. I have now twelve seedlings total, now that the one at the very end has died off completely. That's:
3- Mr. Snow
3- Rosella's Purple
2- Summertime Yellow
1- Summertime Green
1- Tasmanian Chocolate
1- Beryl Beauty

I see I'm missing one. Maybe I had a 4th RP, not sure.

Good day-
--naysen

[OtterJon]

I like that shot of them under the LEDS naysen, those leaves look nice and dark.

Exactly my sentiment Ray, I just like the musky smell and seeing a bit of green when it's so gloomy out. I know the cost and time will make for some expensive maters if I get any at all, but winter will be a bit brighter

My plants are doing a tad better now, but still getting over their issues.
'
I have 10 total..or ten LEFT I should say. There is Chalk's early jewel, Two Hillbillys,Cowlicks Brandywine,Delicious,OSU P20,Brandywine from Croatia (thanks so much Ray) Campbell's #19,and the big one WAS suppose to be a Cowlicks from an earlier trial, where it ended up being the only one that survived, BUT obviously something happened, it has regular leaves..So I am calling it my mystery plant. I've pulled the flowers off of it twice now, I know that whatever it is, it's still way too small to hold the weight of anything

Jon

[lakelady]

Originally Posted by OtterJon

HA! Lakelady,

So I went to the local Hydro shop the other day (to pick up some Fox Farms big bloom) and talked extensively to a fellow there who knew all about the types of troubles I have been having and his take?....Nutrient lockout due to the Well water I use on my plants. He said that they can't uptake nutrients due to the hard water, salts and iron I have going on. His suggestion was to go get the Reverse Osmosis stuff from those Culligan dispensers at the grocery store (NOT Distilled) I brought my own containers and got it for 25 cents a gallon. I also just today, changed my soil completely on all plants, as I had been using that slow release fertilizer, since the start, and now am just using the Fox Farms stuff. He said you need to do a flush on the plants next time you water, running about a gallon through each pot to help get the salts out. Personally I thought it would be just easier to change the soil and start fresh, so that's what I did. Found it interesting that you are having some of the same probs and now I find out you use well water too..hehe I asked why then can I use it on my outdoor plants with no problems, and he said that the outdoor soil has a flow to it and that salts don't build up the same way as in containers, in soilless mixes. So we will see how they do!..

Jon

PS I DID feel better about the state of my toms today after my wife came up to me with the pretty little flowering plant (cant remember name right now) I just got for her on our anniversary a week ago, and held it out and said "Fix". Completely yellow and wilted, dry as a bone. I watered it with a solution of Big Bloom, trimmed off the dead spots and put it under the light, lo and behold a few hours later it perked up. YAY!

Oh boy Jon. Maybe my water is a problem. I have a small filter off the water tank in the basement that prevents me from drinking orange water. Seriously, my well is almost 400' deep (had a new one drilled about 8 years ago when the shallow one went dry) and apparently, it runs right through an iron deposit. However, after many thousands of dollars (did you know they charge by the foot here when they drill???), they hit water and told me I could operate a car wash on the premises and never run dry. Always thankful for small favors lol.... But the water raw, would be orangey, and the sediment would sit in a glass left overnight without that filter. But it just filters out solids.

Reverse Osmosis at the grocery store? I'll have to look for that or go to my sister's house and fill up. She has town water from an artesian well the town operates there. I'm sure they filter it somehow probably one of those reverse osmosis filters on a bigger scale. I've thought about getting one here, but it's pretty expensive and I always say "one of these days".....So the guy really thought water could be your problem...hmm. I feel like "DUH" right now because it just never crossed my mind. My water TASTES great and everyone raves about it. Cept the plants apparently

[OtterJon]

Lakelady,

Yeah It never crossed my mind either, but our iron is horrible, and the buildup of lime on everything that holds water is bad too..as soon as he heard what kind of problems I had, he said you have nutrient lockup. here I thought the yellow leaves and drooping were from overwatering. Well...overwatering with THAT water. Why I never thought about it was that my plants outside do great....today they already look better. The really yellow ones are starting to turn green from the center outwards and they are standing straighter today too...Time will tell I suppose. Thanks again for that recomendation on the Fox Farms products.

Jon

[lakelady]

My Silvery Fir Tree has produced offspring! I have 5 little tomatoes about 3/4 inch tall on one plant. While the plant hasn't looked "great", I have read that typically it is odd looking on a good day anyway. I'm hoping some of the more flavorful varieties will also produce fruit. My dwarf Giant has two flowers, and one looks like it was fused, very large. Now it's closed so I'll soon find out.Still have some leaf issues on some plants which I have not been able to figure out , but they are growing nonetheless, so I'm hopeful for something, even a few each!

[tgplp]

Woohoo! Congrats, Lake Lady. Won't be long now.

Silvery Fir Tree was probably one of the first tomatoes I ever grew. I loved the weird, fern-like leaves! I got some pretty big toms on it, too.

Taryn

[z_willus_d]

Well done Antoniette. Keep us posted, and keep track of the time to break and ripe.

[OtterJon]

Awesome job Lakelady! Those look great

[Tania]

Originally Posted by lakelady

My plants are moist, and register that way on the moisture meter, but not "wet". I only give them a bit of water once a week when the tops are pretty dry and I'm afraid to let them dry out too much. I'll have to do another pH test tomorrow, but I seriously wonder if those gnats haven't caused so much havoc for me. I do have 3 baby tomatoes though on the Silvery Fir Tree, as weird as the foliage looks these days. Some days it looks perky and happy and others the leaves curl, but I'm old it does look worse for wear a lot under normal circumstances.

I was actually thinking of switching out the soils but wondering if some are too big to do so at 10-12" high? I never thought to check my water pH and I have my own well water. I do know my water is very high in iron and now it has just ocurred to me....hmmm...maybe I should switch to distilled water for a few weeks and see if that helps.

Antoniette,

We are on well water too, and I know our water is 'hard', but I never had any problems using the water to water my plants (tomatoes or others).

Obviously the minerals/chemicals in our water are different from yours, we have too much sulphur in there

My $0.02.

By the way, my little tomatoes do quite well, considering the cheap lights and low temperatures in the unheated laundry room. I potted up some of them into 4" containers yesterday, and they look happy. I use my home-made soiless mix and nothing special, no fertilizers, other than occasional very diluted coffee leftovers from the coffee pot go there (once a week or less).

Hahms Gelbe Topftomate plants are showing tiny flower buds already, quite amazing for 2.5" tall plants

Btw, awesome looking plants! If they set fruit, they are obviously happy

Tatiana

[OtterJon]

I agree with Tania on the water thing. Not all water is the same, and it can even vary from well to well in the same area, My problems with water most likely wouldn't be the same for you. I switched to RO only because it's cheaper than tearing my hair out ..From the looks of it though, you have no problems. You have fruit YAY!

Jon

[lakelady]

Well, I'm pretty amazed I have fruit to be honest since the lower leaves still look sick. Some have fallen off that plant with the tomatoes on it, but then I wonder, well, something is going right or it wouldn't be bearing fruit right? I will probably never know.

ZWD..., this weird and kwirky Silvery Fir Tree looks so odd with some branches totally pointing downwards, it had me really worried that I was raising a tomato Frankenstein for a while! My mom even saw it and said "um, what is THIS?". lol .... My new big dwarf looks awful. My spare Tasmanian Chocolate has not grown AT ALL in over a month. Still tiny at 3". Looks healthy, but staying tiny for some odd reason.

I was worried that my house might get too cool, but so far, temps don't seem to be a problem, at least not for SFT. It has only gotten to about 72 a few days when there is a lot of bright sunlight in that room, mostly 68-70. So it seems I'm good with the lights, and the temps, it's just the gnats and soil mix I wonder about.

I think the best thing I did was to stop obsessing over them. After all, that defeats the whole start of this project, which had a goal of "simply and inexpensively see if tomatoes will grow indoors in winter". I'm doing all I can to take care of those darn gnats and that is it. A little water here and there. If they make it, great and I'll be really happy, if they don't, well, then I wait till Spring. I'm really excited though on the Dwarf Giant because I've never noticed a fused blossom on one of my plants before, so I really want to see what happens as it grows.

One thing I really wanted was to have a couple of fresh tomatoes for Christmas I wanted to prove to my family that I wasn't a weirdo !

I'm so glad to hear your little guy has buds Tania! How cute it must look. Reminds me of the story you tell your children about the "little engine that could" lol!

Jon, I hope you have lots of hair if you plan to start pulling some out