Indoor Winter Tomato Project

[tgplp]

Hey Lakelady! Don't worry, the leaf drop is probably ok. And actually, when a tomato plant is stressed out it produces fruit (because it wants to make baby tomato plants before it dies) so maybe your plant is just stressed out. How often do you water?

Also, my house is pretty cold (65F) and my tomatoes grow fine, so don't worry about your temperature! Aaand I got rid of fungas gnats with a combination of cinnamon and venus fly traps! Just sprinkle cinnamon on the soil of your tomatoes. It won't hurt them and it's organic! Probably you don't have a spare venus fly trap around... but I have some venus fly trap seedlings and they sure chow those fungas gnats! The cinnamon method isn't proven, but someone on another forum told me about it, and it seems to work for both of us. So hey- its worth a try! I hope this helps! Growing tomatoes indoors is so fun.

By the way, I am planning on hanging mini ornaments on my tomato plants for christmas. They just germinated, though, so they need to hurry up and grow...Yes, I am very weird.

Taryn

[OtterJon]

I have plenty to spare Antoinette Sounds like you'll get those Christmas tomatoes after all! Today I took a pic of the unopened flowers on the mystery tom. None of the ones I had were cherry type, so I know they are going to be decent sized maters if it sets fruit, but time will tell! No clue how far away they are from opening either lol Plants still have cupped leaves and twisting, but are growing now at least. So I am going to try not to over think it and just let them do their thing downstairs.

[tgplp]

Those look healthy, OtterJon! They have nice dark, rugose leaves. And it looks like that flower will be opening soon.


Taryn

[OtterJon]

Thanks Taryn, Closer inspection shows I do have some problems, but it's looking more and more that those problems were most likely self inflicted. I found a great description online of over fertilization, and it matches what I have going on to a tee. Here is a link if anyones interested.

http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/...fertilization/

I started feeding them slow release 10-10-10 ( I know now too much Nitrogen) right out the gate after they had a few sets of true leaves, and then changed the soil because I didn't want to mix the Fox Farm stuff with it. I think I'll back off the nutrients for a bit and see how they look after a couple of weeks of recoup. Too much of a good thing here I believe. I have leathery, cupped (downward) and overly dark leaves, and tinges of yellow to boot. Indoor really is a whole other animal for me...

Jon

[tgplp]

You're probably right, Jon, about over fertilization- but I'm just pointing out that dwarf varieties have more darker and-I'm trying to think of the right word here- textured, I guess, leaves than regular leafed varieties. This is because most dwarfs are rugose leafed. If you just google rugose tomato plant, you'll see what I mean.

Here's an awesome link about different types of tomato leaves:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/t...539004321.html

Hope that helps!


I've just got a quick question to everybody- I was reading an old thread that Raybo wrote about his Inntainers, and he was using tin foil around the bottom of the plants to reflect llight to them. Does any one else do that? I have some baby seedlings, and was wondering if I put tin foil around the back of the shelf they are growing in, and on the bottom of the pots, would they grow faster?


Thanks!
Taryn

[lakelady]

ZWD, your seedlings are looking really good! Glad to see they are happily moving along for you!

Jon, your plants seem to look better to me now, so that's great that things are improving, the leaves look healthier. i would have to agree as well, that indoors is a totally different ballgame for sure. I thought I knew what I was doing before this...lol.... (key word, "thought"..)

Taryn, I did use the foil initally, but with my leaf problems that developed, I took it off and they seem to be doing okay as is...I only have white sand on the surface to help with the gnats. I'm going to sprinkle some cinnamon if needed, now they have subsided with my sprays, the yellow traps, the sand and the soil drench. holy cow, I've spent more time on the gnats than the tomatoes it would seem.

I need to get myself a flyswatter with the sticky trap on it as I have a few strays that are in other rooms of the house now...if I could just swat them in mid-air and they would stick to the swatter, I'd sleep a lot better. They seem to be attracted to my bedside lamp when i read at night.

[OtterJon]

Taryn, thanks for the link! That IS a good page.

I am however not currently growing any dwarfs, so not too sure where the wrinkling is from. I decided early on that I wanted full sized varieties indoors, and to take trimmings from them to re pot and hopefully make it to spring without a jungle happening. From what I have seen online, they rarely stay small and get lanky indoors but I have yet to take a single trimming...

Inadvertently it looks like I have stunted their growth. Which may be something I should look into doing on purpose in the future... Most of the plants I have there are from late September. Not small varieties either, Hillbilly,Cowlick Brandywine,Chalk's Early Jewel,Delicious,OSU P20,Brandywine from Coatia,(Mystery tomato which could be anything due to a mixup), Depp's Pink Fire Fly and several others. I am not too sure about the rugose leaf thing, as most of the tomatoes I have grown in the past were not heirlooms, I know there's a stress issue going on, but so far I am happy with the stem thickness (lots of petting and fan) and compact sizes.

The biggest worry at this point is allowing the smaller ones to flower, as they might not support the fruit weight! I WAS going to just pick all flowers off throughout the winter, and just use them for the trimmings, BUT as soon as my mystery plant decided to flower...I just couldn't do it. Now Im waiting for them to open up fully to hand pollinate. Should be soon by the looks of things. I read a post by someone in another thread (wish I could find it) where they said the more I torture them the better they seem to do ha!

When it got rainy cold and a bit snowy the other night, I went downstairs and hung out with my plants for a bit under their warm light. I know it's not the sun, but hopefully they don't know that

Oh by the way, If anyone knows what THIS is It would be a great help. The leaves on a few plants have this sunken spot thing going on, and I'm not sure what it is. Over misting with foliar spray with the light on? or Blight? Dunno



Jon

[z_willus_d]

Jon, I'm sorry to see those channels (almost like claw scratches) in your leaves. I saw something similar on one of my dwarf plants a couple days ago, and then almost overnight, things took a turn for the far worse.

The first pic shows my Dwarf Mr. Snow -- I have three and they all suffer from this yellow, brown spotted ailment on the fist set of leaves, and I see that the once solid green upper leaves are turning yellow and on their way to follow suit. These plants look like they'll be goners in the next couple days. They were thriving three days ago.

The 2nd pic shows one of my Rosella's Purple dwarf plants. The lower leaves here almost seem to have some kind of mold or fungus eating away at them, but they are dry in the affected areas. The upper leaves seem to be turning from true green to a yellow, obviously on their way to a similar demise. All RP dwarfs are exhibiting similar ailment.

The 3rd pic might be my SummerTime Green or Gold, can't recall though both show this yellowing and then decrepitude at the worst points.

The 4th pic is just a zoom back showing a couple Mr. Snow plants.

And the 5th is one of those Mr. Snow plants taken without the flash for comparison.


So, what's changed? Well, the only thing I've done differently recently is (a) I purchased a rotating fan and now have it running more regularly whenever the LED light is on; (b) I've been running the LED light a bit longer, with a 15-17h ON / 7-9h OFF schedule; and (c) I watered the plants with Dice's concoction of:
- 1Tbsn Molasses (per Gal)
- 1 tsp MycoGrow
- 1 tsp Actinovate
- And I also through in a small dash of Tiger Bloom liquid fert

So, I watered the plants with this stuff about three times over the span of a week, and I generally under-watered rather than water to fully soaked/wet.

(a) The fan, had been running before, just a bit less and not oscillating, so I doubt that's the cause.
(b) The LED light might be a problem, though I've raised it recently to about 10" above the plants, as I don't want to bleach them. I don't really think the amount of light has changed significantly in the past several days.
(c) I think the concoction must be the problem. Perhaps the Molasses I used is bad stuff. I used some natural molasses I had purchased a year or more ago at Trader Joes. I can't find it now (boxed up for the move), but it was very dark and thick and potent stuff.

The plants almost seem like they are affected by some virus or bacterium or perhaps a fungus. I'm halfway thinking I might spray them with Daconil, something I really didn't want to use on an indoor setup. Any advice or thoughts on this latest setback, this perhaps final death-nail in the slowly constructed coffin for my planter's delight?

Thanks, and may this never happen to you...
Naysen

[Tania]

Naysen,

It may not be related to your problems, but I was looking at your cups where you grow the seedlings, and I thought I should post my experience with them.

I actually stopped using these cups, as I noticed over the years that the seedlings that are planted into these are not growing as well as the ones planted into the plastic yoghurt containers or regular plastic 4" pots that are used in nurseries. Planted at the same time, and same varieties, they start showing signs of stress in a week or so after being potted up into these cups. I have no idea as to why this has been happening for me, and I finally concluded it is not worth wasting the seedlings and I stopped using these. Perhaps the roots of tomato plants do not like the coating on the inside of these cups, who knows!

Anyway, have you got any seedlings growing in the standard plastic containers, for comparison?

Tatiana

[rnewste]

Naysen,

Can you take a photo of the bottom of one of your cups?

Again to me, the plants look too wet. You've got great stem thickness, but something is out of balance for those leaves to be yellowing so soon.

I agree with Tania that the 4 inch square pots are better to use. Suggest you re-pot up to a larger size pot as soon as you can.

Raybo

p.s. I would not recommend using Tiger Bloom at this early stage in your plant's development. Use a small amount of Grow Big instead. Switch to Tiger Bloom when the plants begin to flower.

[Tania]

Raybo, may be they are not too wet, but perhaps whatever is in the cup's coating is slowly leaching into the soiless mix, and may be it is not a good thing?

[rnewste]

Originally Posted by Tania

Raybo, may be they are not too wet, but perhaps whatever is in the cup's coating is slowly leaching into the soiless mix, and may be it is not a good thing?

Tania,

If these cups are sold as drinking cups to the general public, the Feds would force the Manufacturer to test for chemical leaching, etc. Most of these products (milk cartons, orange juice, etc) have a thin film coating of LDPE which is a food-safe material.

Having said that, I believe that if one is spending a hundred Dollars on fertilizers, Myco-Grow, Actinovate, etc., then spend a couple Dollars for professional pots at a Nursery, which are benign to leaching of unknown chemicals. In other words - eliminate one of the "suspects" early on.

Naysen's cups are way too small for the plants as they currently are today. Double the size would be recommended right now.

Raybo

[Tania]

I understand But I am thinking that people use these cups to drink and throw them away - they do not have the drink sitting there for weeks and then drink it. Perhaps a short term 'wetting' of these cups is considered to be acceptable for human health, but not long term? I bet you it would not be good for anyone's health to consume any of the chemicals that result from the decomposition of these cups...

In any event there is something there in these cups that my tomato seedlings strongly dislike, and I can see the 'familiar' signs of distress in Neysen's babies - the yellowish leaves, more 'crinkly' than they should have been. I bet the roots may not look as happy as they should have been...

EDITED TO ADD: Naysen, it may not be responsible for all the issues that you have, but it may explain why the simptoms are getting worse with time despite your very best efforts, and I can see you are doing your very best taking care of them!

[rnewste]

Tania,

Agree 100%. Personally, I would NEVER use a "temporary" drinking cup to try to grow plants in potting mix which would be sitting in these cups wet, for weeks on end.

Raybo

[Tania]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Tania,

I would NEVER use a "temporary" drinking cup to try to grow plants in potting mix which would be sitting in these cups wet, for weeks on end.

Raybo

This wisdom did not come to me until I tried and saw them not working.
Now I know better