OSU Blue observations - Page 16

**Tom Wagner** · February 20, 2012

atv.....good to use for technicality, but poorly remembered even by myself. I just say blue vine or green vine.

My variety Blue Angel..out of seed...has blue tomatoes on a green vine, whereas Out of the Blue has red tomatoes and a blue vine.

Keeps it simple ....Dancing with Smurfs is blue/blue

frogsleap farm · February 20, 2012

Certainly anthocyanin in seedlings (especially in the hypocotyl of young seedlings) is not strongly correlated to anthocyanin in fruit. But I think strong anthocyanin in fruit requires homozygous Aft and atv. In segregating populations I always select first at the seedling stage for homozygous atv, because it is a clear phenotype and it's simple. In addition to Aft and atv there appears to be other genes with a secondary effect on anthocyanin fruit - but that's still a mystery .... at least to me.

goodwin · February 20, 2012

Dar - yes, it is presumed to be homozygous AftAft atvatv. However it shows a variegated appearance so there is something else going on here.

goodwin · April 8, 2012

Here are the first fruits on the Bosque Blue. I have them in 5 gallon buckets which I move in and out of the greenhouse now. There are other things setting like the Pearly Pink Orange, but this is still quite early. The P-20 ( Indigo Rose) plants are showing a lot of leaf roll for some reason, but I am reluctant to pull them because I would like to see what the fruit looks like. Meanwhile I spent the last week setting a lot of other varieties out in the garden with the unusually warm weather. Happy Easter everyone! Lee

jennifer28 · April 8, 2012

Very nice photographs, Lee. I love how neatly you have your wall 'o waters set up. I had some leaf curl on my indigo rose seedlings, but I really think it was temperature related because when the temps became more stable in my classroom, they ended up fine... I could be wrong about the temp hypothesis, but it is my best guess right now.

goodwin · April 8, 2012

hi Jennifer -
You are probably right about the temperature and those plants are more susceptible. Not just the leaves are rolling, but the stems are twisted as well.
And the wall of waters do pretty well protecting the plants - now if they would just set themselves up! This bunch will have the larger varieties I save for seed. Anyway, it feels great to start another year.

frogsleap farm · April 8, 2012

I've noticed considerable leaf roll on a number of my P20 - derived Aft lines, and on a couple Aft lines I tried from Tom Wagner last summer. I think there is a genetic linkage of the two traits. Several of my Aft lines do not show the linked traits, so the linkage is not that tight - non-linked segregants are fairly easy to find.

goodwin · April 9, 2012

frogsleap - what you are saying agrees with what I've seen. Fortunately, the trait hasn't appeared in the lines I've been working on.
The plants from the seeds you sent me look fine. I'll post some photos of those when they get a little further along. Here is one of the Indigo Rose plants with the problem.

loeb · April 9, 2012

I have 3 OSU blue plants : 2 of them are green with bluish stem, and one has leaves getting blue hue in sunlight. Should I collect seeds from that "tanning" one?

maf · April 9, 2012

The Indigo Rose plant I grew inside over winter had the rolled leaflets, so it cannot be related to cold temperatures. I am half-tempted to believe the breeders deliberately selected for this trait in order to allow more sunlight to reach the fruits. (I know they selected for sparse leaf cover for this same reason.)

travis · April 9, 2012

I'd say the leaf-rolling trait is benefitial in an anthocyanin type fruit to help increase the anthocyanin production by letting more light into the plant.

jennifer28 · April 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by maf

The Indigo Rose plant I grew inside over winter had the rolled leaflets, so it cannot be related to cold temperatures. I am half-tempted to believe the breeders deliberately selected for this trait in order to allow more sunlight to reach the fruits. (I know they selected for sparse leaf cover for this same reason.)

Maf
That is a good point, and could be the case. The thing that made me think temperature had something to do with it (not necessarily cold, but a fluctuation between cold and hot, like a spread between 60-90 degrees) is that I have all of our school seedlings along a large windowsill of a south facing window. There are also fluorescent lights in the classroom but not close enough to the plants to do much. The light from the south facing window is bright enough so that I get nice thick stems and I don't need grow lights. There are many varieties in this area - indigo rose, cowlicks brandywine, stupice, a bunch of Ukranian commercial varieties, green zebra, black krim, abe lincoln, Rozalinda, Yukon Quest, etc. and all the plants got leaf curl and then it stopped when the temperature range stayed within 75-80 all day and then went to 65 at night. There is also a large heater under the sill, which is the main reason I start the seeds there - the heat that the heater gives to the bottom of the seeds can't be beat. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that is how I came upon my guess. I would be interested to know if the indigo rose plants were indeed selected for a leaf curling trait.

maf · April 9, 2012

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I mentioned cold because I saw Goodwin was using WOW's and thought that cold was the factor being considered under temperature. If multiple varieties are exhibiting the leaf curl it is probably a stress reaction, to environmental factors such as the temp swings, or dry air etc.

In my case Indigo Rose was the only variety out of several that exhibited leaf curl, so it seems something this variety is more susceptible to.

As Travis mentioned, the leaf roll would be a beneficial trait for increasing anthocyanin pigment expression by allowing more light into the fruits. A recessive gene for this trait, wt, is known as wilty:

http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/GenDetail.aspx?Gene=wt

http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Images/br,j,...2-seedling.jpg

jennifer28 · April 9, 2012

Thank you for the link, maf

And the idea of purposely selecting for that trait makes sense.

goodwin · April 9, 2012

Foliage problems are not something I would select for and it is probably just as well we don't see this tendency in the newer blue lines.
The narrow-leaved, droopy trait is another matter because there we have evidence it is linked to other, desirable characteristics.

February 20, 2012	#226
Tom Wagner Crosstalk™ Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 8407 18th Ave West 7-203 Everett, Washington 98204 Posts: 1,157	atv.....good to use for technicality, but poorly remembered even by myself. I just say blue vine or green vine. My variety Blue Angel..out of seed...has blue tomatoes on a green vine, whereas Out of the Blue has red tomatoes and a blue vine. Keeps it simple ....Dancing with Smurfs is blue/blue

February 20, 2012	#227
frogsleap farm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 568	Certainly anthocyanin in seedlings (especially in the hypocotyl of young seedlings) is not strongly correlated to anthocyanin in fruit. But I think strong anthocyanin in fruit requires homozygous Aft and atv. In segregating populations I always select first at the seedling stage for homozygous atv, because it is a clear phenotype and it's simple. In addition to Aft and atv there appears to be other genes with a secondary effect on anthocyanin fruit - but that's still a mystery .... at least to me.

February 20, 2012	#228
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	Dar - yes, it is presumed to be homozygous AftAft atvatv. However it shows a variegated appearance so there is something else going on here.

April 8, 2012	#230
jennifer28 Two-faced Drama Queen Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital Posts: 955	Very nice photographs, Lee. I love how neatly you have your wall 'o waters set up. I had some leaf curl on my indigo rose seedlings, but I really think it was temperature related because when the temps became more stable in my classroom, they ended up fine... I could be wrong about the temp hypothesis, but it is my best guess right now.

April 8, 2012	#231
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	hi Jennifer - You are probably right about the temperature and those plants are more susceptible. Not just the leaves are rolling, but the stems are twisted as well. And the wall of waters do pretty well protecting the plants - now if they would just set themselves up! This bunch will have the larger varieties I save for seed. Anyway, it feels great to start another year.

April 8, 2012	#232
frogsleap farm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 568	I've noticed considerable leaf roll on a number of my P20 - derived Aft lines, and on a couple Aft lines I tried from Tom Wagner last summer. I think there is a genetic linkage of the two traits. Several of my Aft lines do not show the linked traits, so the linkage is not that tight - non-linked segregants are fairly easy to find.

April 9, 2012	#234
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	I have 3 OSU blue plants : 2 of them are green with bluish stem, and one has leaves getting blue hue in sunlight. Should I collect seeds from that "tanning" one?

April 9, 2012	#235
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	The Indigo Rose plant I grew inside over winter had the rolled leaflets, so it cannot be related to cold temperatures. I am half-tempted to believe the breeders deliberately selected for this trait in order to allow more sunlight to reach the fruits. (I know they selected for sparse leaf cover for this same reason.)

April 9, 2012	#236
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	I'd say the leaf-rolling trait is benefitial in an anthocyanin type fruit to help increase the anthocyanin production by letting more light into the plant.

April 9, 2012	#238
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	Ok, thanks for clarifying. I mentioned cold because I saw Goodwin was using WOW's and thought that cold was the factor being considered under temperature. If multiple varieties are exhibiting the leaf curl it is probably a stress reaction, to environmental factors such as the temp swings, or dry air etc. In my case Indigo Rose was the only variety out of several that exhibited leaf curl, so it seems something this variety is more susceptible to. As Travis mentioned, the leaf roll would be a beneficial trait for increasing anthocyanin pigment expression by allowing more light into the fruits. A recessive gene for this trait, wt, is known as wilty: http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/GenDetail.aspx?Gene=wt http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Images/br,j,...2-seedling.jpg

April 9, 2012	#239
jennifer28 Two-faced Drama Queen Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital Posts: 955	Thank you for the link, maf And the idea of purposely selecting for that trait makes sense.

April 9, 2012	#240
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	Foliage problems are not something I would select for and it is probably just as well we don't see this tendency in the newer blue lines. The narrow-leaved, droopy trait is another matter because there we have evidence it is linked to other, desirable characteristics.