An interesting breeding possibility

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by maf

Interesting project, Dar I wish you the best success.

For those who are hoping this might extend the season in the fall, please be aware that even if the vine could handle 22F, the tomatoes on the vines would be spoiled by a hard freeze.

That's not an issue here. The issue is having 90 degree weather and a cold front comes along and drops the temp to 30-31 degrees just barely for long enough to kill your tomatoes, then the temp climbs back up into the 80's for weeks after. It is a real pain being right on the border of the climate zone between warm all year, but on a flat plain that releases heat so fast and allows a cold wind to chill things almost instantly. The air is typically so dry there is no humidity to hold the heat. Just a degree or two of cold resistance would make a HUGE difference.

The same type of thing happens in spring too. Usually not quite as bad due to spring rains adding moisture but still happens. You could be in shirt sleaves for weeks and even spot the rare bikini top now and then, then here comes the late cold front out of the blue killing everything, then right back to warm weather again.

If I didn't have to worry about the odd cold front, I could easily plant February 1st. As it is now I typically plan on March 1st and cross my fingers. (and have some plastic ready at a moments notice) Most people even wait longer just in case.

Problem is if you wait till it is totally safe you then need worry about the dreaded heat wave in summer that hits just about the exact time your tomatoes should be at their peak setting fruit. Top it all off with fighting the swarms of mice gophers rats squirrels and even insects that don't normally even like green tomatoes, but eat a bite or two out of each one just for the moisture......

So you are basically d'd if you do, and d'd if you don't.

[Fred Hempel]

Maf,

It is possible that the tomatoes themselves are also more resistant to cold temps. After all, all flower and fruit parts are simply modified shoots and leaves.

http://www.beyondwilber.ca/about/pla...orphology.html

[maf]

Originally Posted by Fred Hempel

Maf,

It is possible that the tomatoes themselves are also more resistant to cold temps. After all, all flower and fruit parts are simply modified shoots and leaves.

Very true Fred, but the tomato fruit is thin skinned and watery which is not the ideal design for surviving a hard freeze. I will accept that the fruits of such a plant may be slightly more cold tolerant than regular tomatoes, but I think it is unrealistic to extrapolate the 22F from the young plants in the spring and to assume the fruits could endure similar temps.

What other types of fruit can survive the freeze/thaw cycle and carry on growing? I don't know of any soft fruit that can tolerate frost. My experience of fruits that can survive frost is that they are leathery, dry, tough, small berries, mostly not regarded as a food source by humans.

[Fred Hempel]

Very true. But we can dream...

[rxkeith]

and we can call it the super duper yooper mater




or something like that



keith

[RobinB]

I would also be interested in helping with a growout. We often have snow and nighttime temps in the 20s in May and sometimes into early June. I realize that I would need to protect them from the snow, but if some combination of Walls O' Water and/or protective cloths might work. It's intriguing and definitely worth exploring!

[PaulF]

Cool! (pun intended) But by the time it gets to be 22 degrees I am about tomatoed out for the year. It takes a couple of months to get recharged for the next growing season. But the project sounds really interesting. Good Luck.

[Fred Hempel]

Tomatoed out? Heresy!

[Diriel]

When I read that...I thought the very same thing! Heresy!!

[Fred Hempel]

Moderators,

Please place Paul on double-secret probation.

[Andrey_BY]

Actually there are a plenty Russian amateur and commercial tomato varieties to survive at -7C (19,4F) and even lower at -14C (7F).

The most popular (in Russia) extreme cold tolerant amateur tomato varieties were bred by Saraev P. from Russian town Orenburg: Stepnyak, О-33, I-3 or Iyunskiy-3, Gruntovyi, Limonchik, Sibiryak, Orenburzhets, Kemerovets, Spiridonovskiy etc.

I've tried Spiridonovskiy, Kemerovets and I-3. They were really cold tolerant at least at about 0C.

More reading for Russian speaking enthusiasts abour Saraev tomato varieites: http://sadoved.com/3798-saraevskie-t...-nasledie.html

[PaulF]

Mea Culpa! Usually from hard freeze (late October) to seed starting (the first week of March) I rested, researched, dreamed, planned and purchased. Now that I teach a class for the local community college and for a 4-H group on starting plants from seeds, my down time is about 30 days. This year all my tomatoing has ended this week. In order to have planting sized tomatoes ready for the February classes it begins again in a couple of weeks. So take a deep breath along with me. Just think what it would be like if I tried to do the really hard stuff like breed new varieties. Heretical? Yep, I guess so. Sorry.

[Fusion_power]

Andrey, do you have access to seed of some of the cold tolerant varieties? If so, please PM me if you would be willing to ship me a few to trial.

Thanks,

DarJones

[maf]

Andrey, is the 'Gruntovyi' you mention different from 'Gruntovyi Gribovskiy'? I have seeds for that one and it is supposed to have good cold tolerance; just wondering if it is the same?

[Andrey_BY]

Yes, these two are different varieties. Gruntovyi Gribovskiy is Russian CV and quite early, but without any special cold tolerance (0C or lower).

Originally Posted by maf

Andrey, is the 'Gruntovyi' you mention different from 'Gruntovyi Gribovskiy'? I have seeds for that one and it is supposed to have good cold tolerance; just wondering if it is the same?