Manure Question

[TomNJ]

Coffee grounds are fine, just a bit acidic. I would add some limestone to counter this.

TomNJ

[Too Tall Toms]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

Coffee grounds are fine, just a bit acidic. I would add some limestone to counter this.

TomNJ

Would you add limestone to the compost now or when it comes time to add it to my garden in the spring?

[TomNJ]

I would add it to the compost now so it will have time to work. Pulverized limestone takes a few weeks to months to breakdown and effectively neutralize acids.

TomNJ

[Too Tall Toms]

Thanks for the heads up TomNJ

[Too Tall Toms]

One more question.....

When you talk about limestone to neutralize the acid from coffee grounds in compost, do you mean the powered limestone from any garden center such as this....

http://www.lowes.com/pd_60891-692-34...ime&facetInfo=

Also, I read that pine needles are a good addition to a compost pile but they're acidic. So, would that powdered lime counteract that too?

[RayR]

Soil Doctor Pulverized Lime (MSDS Info Here) is Dolomite Lime (calcium magnesium carbonate), that's what you would use to neutralize acidity. Don't use Quick Lime (Calcium oxide), it's a manufactured caustic form of lime that is too risky to use for most gardening needs.

I wouldn't get overly concerned about the acidity of the inputs to your compost, pretty much everything you add including pine needles, most leaves, and coffee grounds has a lower PH, but the PH may rise naturally as it turns to finished compost as long as there is enough Oxygen available in the pile. You don't want a compacted and water logged compost pile, that's when it will turn more acidic.
If you want to add lime, add very little to be safe, too much can slow down the composting process. Pretty much everything I've read about research done on leaves and compost has shown that they don't have any appreciable effect on soil PH whether added to the soil or used as a mulch. The PH of the soil you start with is more important than the PH of the organic material you add.

[Too Tall Toms]

Ok.....so if I understand you right, I should PH test the soil before I add any compost to it? Would it be beneficial to PH test the soil after I add compost and other amendments to it?

I'm growing nothing but tomatoes next year and I don't want to screw it up.

As a side note, I do fluff up the compost frequently and I keep it covered during rain.

[RayR]

PH test the soil as is, adding compost may not change things much one way or another, but you'e got to know what you are starting with. What you want to know is whether your soil PH is too low, too high or just right. Tomatoes like most veggies do best in a PH of 6.5-7.0 the experts say, so that would be the ideal PH range for growing.
If the soil PH is much lower than 6.5, then liming would be the appropriate next step. If it is much higher than 7.0 then adding sulfur would lower the PH. How much to add depends on the type of soil you have, if you are using a soil test kit and your PH readings are way off the ideal 6.5-7.0 then you might consider getting a professional lab analysis of your soil and they can recommend what to add and how much.

I know you don't want to screw up, but we all screw up from time to time.
Sometimes Mother Nature screws us too.
Best thing to do is learn all you can to unscrew things before or when they happen.

If your compost bin has good drainage, you don't have to cover it. You compost should be consistently moist, but you don't want it drowning under water.

[TomNJ]

Yes that's the stuff. Make sure it says pulverized limestone, as opposed to quick acting lime or hydrated lime. The latter are instant acting and can burn roots, although are probably okay in compost.

Limestone will slowly neutralize any acids from decomposing acidic organics, such as coffe grounds, leaves, and pine needles. I use a handful for each ~8" layer in my compost.

TomNJ

[Too Tall Toms]

Is there any particular soil test kit I should buy? How reliable are those home testing kits?

I'm assuming I should have the testing done now.

I can't believe how much thought I'm putting into this tomato thing of mine. What happened to the good old days of going to the garden center, buying a couple of beefsteak tomatoes, sticking them in the ground, and hoping for the best? LOL

[fortyonenorth]

Too Tall - I wouldn't bother with the off-the-shelf test kits. They're not very accurate or reliable. Spend your money ($20) on a professional soil test, preferably a private lab - as opposed to an extension or university lab. If you focus solely on managing pH you're really missing the big picture. In addition to Calcium, pH is affected by Magnesium and Potassium and other nutrients. If you have low Calcium/high Magnesium soil, your pH could be high yet it would still require lime. If your soil does require "lime" it's important to know what you're adding. Dolomite lime (the most commonly recommended lime) is calcium magnesium carbonate, CaMg(CO3)2. It contains roughly 22% Calcium and 11% Magnesium. Adding DL to raise your pH is also going to raise your Magnesium levels -- which may or may not be what you require.

These are just random thoughts. My main suggestion, again, is to get a professional soil test. They are not expensive and will give you the information you need to make the best of your garden.

Good luck!

[Too Tall Toms]

20 bucks or so is pretty cheap and that'll give me accurate test results. Cool.
If the lab tells me that I need to add something to the soil to fix a certain problem, how long does it take for that to take effect?

Am I overthinking this tomato garden of mine??

[fortyonenorth]

It depends on what you're adding. Nitrogen must be added close to the time of planting - it leaches or otherwise dissipates rather quickly. Something like dolomite lime is made available slowly - it might take 3 years for 100% of it to become available. It also depends on what type of fertility you're using. Synthetic ferts are generally fast-acting, while organic ferts can take a while.

I don't think you're overthinking it. In fact, I think most gardeners give short-shrift to the question of balanced fertility. I can say from a personal perspective that the difference in taste and yield since I tested and properly balanced my soil is remarkable.

PM me if you'd like a recommendation for a soil lab.

[Tom C zone 4/5]

Originally Posted by Too Tall Toms

Am I overthinking this tomato garden of mine??

Seeing as most of the past two thousand years, the average gardener could not read, I think yes your working hard at loving your garden to death.

Paying for a soil test early on when opening a new garden, is probably a good idea.

Hand digging, at least a test portion of a new garden probably couldn't hurt either.

Painting a new garden sight unseen with the widest possible brush; odds are, your garden needs a liberal amount of organic material, and to be encouraged to de-compact.

Set out walkways and keep the beds you amended, not walked on.

My most commonly adopted (during a reflective moment) resolution; is to chop lignin and fiber rich compostable stuff into shorter lengths. Sometimes I even remember to do that...

Proffesor Dirt, said it best; "it all leads back to compost". The tag of "IALBTC", still shows up every so often on the internet.