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January 23, 2008 | #16 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sassari, Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 15
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I'm not sure what the calcium situation of my water is here, I guess I could check with my neighbors. As for the spraying, I do it to keep the spider mites away. In this hot, dry climate, they will destroy your garden otherwise. However, since they highly dislike moisture, I don't have problems anymore because they don't even come to my terrace. Do tomatoes have some issue with being sprayed? I haven't noticed any problems with other plants. I would imagine the plants benefit from the "humid" nights I create. Keep in mind that humidity here on a summer day can be 15% and perhaps lower.
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January 24, 2008 | #17 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Des Moines, WA.
Posts: 358
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Aaron,
The usual directions I,ve read on tomatoes is not to water late in the day. Also in watering try not to splash possible soil contaminants on the plants when you water them. By watering early in the day the tomatoes have time to sun dry before night time. Obviously you have plenty of sunshine. I was just trying to pose a possible area of potential problem. You do not say what your growing medium is nor wether the locals healthy plants are staked or allowed to sprawl. Tomatoes are very strong plants but are susceptible to fungal and viral pathogens. Could there be contaminents in the soil or airborne spores etc ? Are you using potted soil or? What do the local people do as far as watering? Suze and Dice are on target and have a lot more experience than I do. Just trying to get a little better picture of your problem. Maybe if I ask the right question some one here can better help you.
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January 24, 2008 | #18 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 4,743
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What Troad is thinking of is fungal leaf disease, which
benefits from a moist environment. Here in N. America, we are often struggling to keep the leaves dry enough to inhibit the onset of Early Blight or Late Blight, and we go to great lengths to avoid splashing spores from the soil up onto the leaves and stem of the plant. (That is why you see a lot of mention of Daconil in threads here and there. It contains an anti-fungal compound that seals off sites that fungi bind to on a leaf or stem.) If we spray tomato plants (anti-fungal, pyrethrums, garlic-and-cayenne, foliar feeding, whatever), it is done early in the morning on a hot day, so that the plant dries off quickly, and hopefully not on a windy day. Brief BER fact sheet: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/3117.html (Note that the "inches of water per week" in that page probably varies in the real world with the exact kind of soil and weather that you have.) Some other calcium sources besides lime: gypsum (that is what drywall is made from; used when you have near neutral soil already and don't want to shift the pH upward); crushed (ground if possible) eggshells; chipped oyster shell; bone meal; fish bone meal; crushed crab shells; synthetic calcium carbonates like SuperSweet (fast breakdown); wood ash (fast breakdown, can radically shift pH upward); comfrey leaf; vitamins (this is a fairly expensive calcium source).
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January 25, 2008 | #19 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sassari, Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 15
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fungal diseases on leaves are not a problem here (in the summer), watering at night or not. Any suggestions for varieties that might do well in containers in a hot climate? Might be better to try some kinds that set fruit better in warm weather. I already have olpaka and black krim.
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January 25, 2008 | #20 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sassari, Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 15
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I think a mulch will help a lot. Thanks Dice for the link. I think a mulch, some afternoon shade, larger containers, choosing varieties carefully and perhaps a bit of calcium should do the trick. Should 10 gallons each be ok? what about cherries? I take it they need less? I also guess that indeterminate are better (not to mention more useful).
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January 25, 2008 | #21 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 4,743
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Quote:
on the size of the plant (leaf surface area) than on the size of the fruit. Growing in the ground, most tomato plants, both determinates and indeterminates, can easily fill a 3'x3'x3' space with roots. What you find growing in containers is the need to water daily, sometimes twice a day, in hot weather (which you have an abundance of there in Sardinia). A moisture meter would probably be a big help here, so you can get an idea of how fast the containers are drying out. "Will grow well in a container" and "does well in the heat" are not necessarily going to be the same cultivar. These do better than most in the heat: Eva Purple Ball, Mule Team, Arkansas Traveler (or Traveler or Traveler 76), Carmello (or Crimson Carmello, a French Hybrid, should be available locally there), Rio Grande (determinate paste), Principe Borghese (indeterminate cherry), Stupice. There are doubtless others, but those are the ones that I have heard "kept setting fruit in the heat of midsummer" comments about from people that live in climates as hot as yours. All but one are indeterminates and can get big. What you will probably find is that the size of the plant ends up limited by the size of the container (meaning that any of them will be modest-sized growing in a 10-gallon container compared to how big they would get growing in the ground in the same climate). If you are looking at commercial hybrids recommended for hot climates, look for "semi-determinate". Those will stay more compact than most indeterminates yet produce fruit over a longer season (usually) than determinates. Some of them behave like a 2-crop determinate, where you get a concentrated set of a lot of fruit all at once, more or less, then after you harvest them the plant keeps growing and produces another set that also ripen at almost the same time. Another one to try is Russian Red. It was not bred for the heat, specifically, but it is known as a tough plant that can take a lot of abuse and still keep producing. As a rugose-leaved tree-type dwarf (stubby growth habit, thick stems), it should take longer to outgrow your containers than regular determinates, semi-determinates, and indeterminates. So what are the local farmers growing? How do they taste? You are probably close to the water. What about scrounging around down there for shells, fish skeletons, kelp from nets, stuff like that? In a location like that, you should be able to add marine sources of calcium and other goodies to your container mix practically for free.
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January 26, 2008 | #22 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sassari, Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 15
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Thanks Dice. I guess that perhaps better than a certain variety that might do well in the heat, it would be better to choose one that doesn't get very big. Based on the description, it seems that HuskY Cherry Red might be a good idea. it's pretty dwarf and fruits all season long. I could check local varieties as well, but like I said, I've seen fields of tomatoes growing fine in the dry summer heat, with lost of fruit. I think the issues are more about growing in containers, where keeping them watered is a problem, and the terrace is ovbiously hotter than the ground. With all the advice I've gotten, I think I'll be ready to try this year, even with the kinds I already have.
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January 26, 2008 | #23 |
Tomatoville® Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,386
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I live in the desert southwest, where its hot and dry all summer. I grow only in containers. If you do a search here for my posts, you can see some of the varieties I grow. There are lots of them you could grow, but the timing of putting your plants out is very important. If you want, take a look at some of my threads/posts and let me know if I can help you out with some seed. TGS has some hybrids that set well in the kind of heat we have-I have grown them. I am not a fan of hybrids, but this summer I am going to have 6 plants of two of them to trial them again. When you have sustained heat of 95-100 during the day, and 75 as a low, blossom drop is inevitable.
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Michael |
January 26, 2008 | #24 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY z5
Posts: 1,205
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One thing that works for me in addition to mulch is shading the sides of the container by setting it inside a larger container or a planter box so there is a little empty space between the two. Or you can put something decorative next to the containers on the south and west side to shade just the root zone rather than the whole plant. It's surprising how hot the sides of the container will get in the sun, especially when sitting on a paved surface. With shade from the side and mulch on top, the plant roots are less overheated and the soil loses less moisture to evaporation while staying more evenly moist between waterings.
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January 26, 2008 | #25 |
Tomatoville® Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,386
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I use white containers and zeba.
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Michael |
January 26, 2008 | #26 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 4,743
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A couple more good hot-weather cultivars: Jetsetter, Creole.
Skyfire sells a mix of cultivars that have done better than most in mid-summer heat in Kansas (it says 25-30 seeds, and I don't know whether they are sorted by cultivar). Their catalog also has notes on how individual cultivars that they sell seeds for did in the heat: http://skyfiregardenseeds.com/#Tomatoes Beyond a certain air temperature, that varies with cultivar, there just is not a lot you can do, because pollen becomes unfertile (and to some extent ova in the flowers, too). One trick is to go around early in the morning, before it heats up, and shake the plants. Some flowers will get fertilized by pollen that developed the night before and has not been exposed to the heat of day yet.
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January 27, 2008 | #27 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E
Posts: 5,041
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Aaron, looks like all of Tville has come to your aid. Definately check out mdvpc's prior posts as he is one of our container guru's while doing it in the heat as well. And he can definately fix you up with a few good varieties so shoot him a PM and take him up on his offer. Planting time down in your area will be comming up shortly. Ami
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January 27, 2008 | #28 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sassari, Sardinia, Italy
Posts: 15
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I currently have seeds of Legend, Gold Nugget, Juliet, Olpaka, Pink Brandywine, Black krim, Mariana's peace, and some beefsteak (the variety I don't know). Which or these would you recommend or advise against trying? I already have 2 Gold Nuggets growing, but I'd rather wait to see what people advise before planting others. I was thinking of ordering a few varieties from TGS, but I'll wait for advice first. Thanks for the posts everyone.
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January 29, 2008 | #29 |
Tomatoville® Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,386
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Ami-thanks for the compliment. Aaron, Pink Brandywine (which is really just called Brandywine) and M. Peace will be difficult for you. The cherries will be fine. Opalka, you may have ber problems. If you want a paste, Heidi may be a good choice-its from Africa. Black Krim may do ok-I grow black varieties and one year they are good and another they arent.
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Michael |
January 30, 2008 | #30 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 4,743
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