How Many Kinds of Brandywine Are There?

[AKmark]

Originally Posted by Worth1

High Mark I am no expert on tomatoes but I have to give you my opinion on what you should grow.

First you may ask, why on earth would someone from Texas be giving me advise?
I can and will tell you.
I know lots of people that live in Wasilla, more so than I know in Texas.
Of these people many grow gardens and always complain about the weather and so forth and how hard it is to grow tomatoes there.
Of the ones that asked me and followed my instructions and recommendations they are very happy.
Many have said they had tomatoes running out of their ears.

I may be wrong but I would think an 80 day tomato would be very herd to get much out of where you live.
Some years yes some no and you know what I mean.

I would suggest any short season determinant or short season indeterminate variety for where you live.
Gregori's Alti.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/GREGORI...ductinfo/5582/
Kemberly.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/KIMBERLY/productinfo/3176/
Oregon Spring.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/OREGON-...ductinfo/2712/
Siletz.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/SILETZ/productinfo/2831/
New Yorker.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/NEW-YOR...ductinfo/2826/
Clear Pink Early. (Not grown this one).
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/CLEAR-P...ductinfo/2416/
Fire Works.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/FIREWOR...ductinfo/6002/
Red Rocket.
Aurora.
Green.
Lime Green Salad.
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/LIME-GR...ductinfo/4968/
There are many more early green ones but I have not grown them.
And of course any of your early cherry or grape tomatoes.

With this list and any that others want to suggest you should have plenty of tomatoes.

As you know a green house up there is almost a must.
The dirrerance from your place and mine is anly at the end of the growing season your stuff frezzes and mine burns up.
I can let my fruit stay on the vine and you have to bring yours in.

As for Brandy Wine the season is a little too short here for them to put out many fruit.
I am also going to start seeds here the last of November this year not the last of December.
Worth

We are not even on the same page, I want brandywine knowledge, not growing tips, or other strain tips. Doing just fine there, thanks though.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by AKmark

Experts please tell us all you know. What are your favorites, what are strains of like, legends, facts, I love it all? I am hooked on these tomatoes, they are very similar in taste to the kind my dad grew in southern Indiana in the 70's when I was a kid. Have mercy... I am in AK and need tomatoes, good ones too.

Well at the top of your post you said " all ears ".

I had no Idea you were an expert grower as I have not looked at any of your threads or posts about tomatoes.

I wouldn't try to help someone that has far more experience than me.

Worth

[AKmark]

Hey no problem, it just seems that far north gardeners are felt sorry for, or something, so sorry if I got defensive, and I'm not an expert... thats why I'm here. I can grow plants, have for many years, but I am really behind on mid and late season strain knowledge, thats really why I'm here. It is obvious, that every strain listed ion a seed catalog is awesome. Yah Right! Hopefully, on this site, others who know great strains will help me cut through the endless ads and suggest strains like I have asked for. Thats all I want, I will even take them fishing if they ever come to AK. Like I stated I want Branywine type info, or strains of like, as the thread suggests
Mark

[tlintx]

I thought "strains" were just seeds saved from a variety repeatedly in the hopes of furthering a cause (ie, most productive, earliest)? Also, can't anybody name any tomato "Brandywine" or "Brandy" whatever?

I have two Brandywine (Cowlick's) seedlings awaiting plant out right now. Not that hopeful -- they seem to fade in the heat faster than the other varieties I've tried. May just be that Brandy-whatevers are not doable here except maybe in early spring, with a very long head start, as Worth suggested.

I am also trying Brandeva, seems a little tougher but not much.

[amideutch]

Worth& anyone who cares
Hey no problem, it just seems that far north gardeners are felt sorry for, or something, so sorry if I got defensive, and I'm not an expert... thats why I'm here. I can grow plants, have for many years, but I am really behind on mid and late season strain knowledge, thats really why I'm here. It is obvious, that every strain listed ion a seed catalog is awesome. Yah Right! Hopefully, on this site, others who know great strains will help me cut through the endless ads and suggest strains like I have asked for. Thats all I want, I will even take them fishing if they ever come to AK. Like I stated I want Branywine type info, or strains of like, as the thread suggests
Mark

Evidently mid or late season varieties are not a show stopper for you as there is no short/early season Brandywine. For me Cowlicks is the hands down combined overall best Brandywine out there when you consider production, taste, disease resistance and fruit set. Want to give it a try? PM me your addy and I will send you some.

Ami

[Deborah]

Thanks, Randy.

[AKmark]

Ami, I would love some Cowlick's, and would like to try a side by side comparison with the seeds I have. I have some that was gifted by a friend who could not remember excactly where he got them from, but I'm sure he researched the source the best he could before he obtained them. I plan on doing a much bigger brandywine, and like variety, growout next year, and will spend the winter sorting through endless internet claims, to choose the best seed I can be rewarded with.
Searching through endless threads and info for information on "brandywines" is time consuming to say the least.
Since I live in Alaska I may have to take a lower 48 tour and see first hand who has what, and then simply choose a favorite beefsteak OP on taste bud experience.

Can anyone explain this; if a OP variety is seperated by two or more breeders doing their own selections, for several generations, years, will you get a similar vigor like you would when creating a hybrid?

As it stands now, it appears that Brandywine is to tomato as zucchini is to squash, or as jalapeño is to pepper. There are all kinds of varieties of each. However it differs in that, culturally, it's still thought of as a single variety (probably in part due to how the name sounds more like a variety than a type of fruit). Nevertheless, I suppose it's possible that many still think there's only one kind of jalapeño. It should also be noted that similar things are happening with Roma tomatoes, only I'm pretty sure the usage extends far beyond any genetic relation to actual Roma tomatoes (referring merely to plum-shaped, meaty paste tomatoes).

Also, it should be noted there are varieties out there that do not claim to be Brandywine, but are still said to taste like it. For instance, Caspian Pink is supposed to taste the same, but be earlier and more productive.

How does Brandywine Yellow (Abundant Life) compare taste-wise to Brandywine Sudduth's Strain?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by shule1

As it stands now, it appears that Brandywine is to tomato as zucchini is to squash, or as jalapeño is to pepper. There are all kinds of varieties of each. However it differs in that, culturally, it's still thought of as a single variety (probably in part due to how the name sounds more like a variety than a type of fruit). Nevertheless, I suppose it's possible that many still think there's only one kind of jalapeño. It should also be noted that similar things are happening with Roma tomatoes, only I'm pretty sure the usage extends far beyond any genetic relation to actual Roma tomatoes (referring merely to plum-shaped, meaty paste tomatoes).

Also, it should be noted there are varieties out there that do not claim to be Brandywine, but are still said to taste like it. For instance, Caspian Pink is supposed to taste the same, but be earlier and more productive.

How does Brandywine Yellow (Abundant Life) compare taste-wise to Brandywine Sudduth's Strain?

No, Brandywine is not considered as a single variety, not at all in my experience at several different message sites in the past,nor by me. As I posted above the major question for me is are the many different varieties that have Brandywine as part of the name have ALL Brandywine genes, or not, and that was addressed earlier in this thread, by me and others.

Then there's two kinds of meanings as to what a strain is, and I also spoke to that in a post in this thread.

I don't think the comparison between Yellow Brandywine and Brandywine ( Sudduth/Quisenberry) as to taste is a valid one since they are two completely different varieties and would not be expected to taste the same.Also, taste is in the mouth of the taster and there are many many variables that can influnce the taste of a variety. Even a single variety grown in the same season at two different places even 10 miles apart can taste different as was shown when I used to set up taste testings.

Are you yet familiar with Tania's wonderful tomato base website so you can look up the histories yourself? If you'd like me to post the link and then explain how it works,I can do that.

And yes, now 76 and being an SSE member for a very long time I can well remember when there were just a few known authentic Brandywine varieties and I've followed this Brandywine issue for many decades now.

Carolyn

Originally Posted by carolyn137

No, Brandywine is not considered as a single variety. …

I don't think the comparison between Yellow Brandywine and Brandywine ( Sudduth/Quisenberry) …

And yes, now 76 and being an SSE member for a very long time I can well remember when there were just a few known authentic Brandywine varieties and I've followed this Brandywine issue for many decades now.

Carolyn

I've heard about you, read several of your posts (across the Internet; not particularly here), and I am a fan of yours. I've read stuff about you that you didn't write, too. I'm not an authority on you, though. I didn't know you were a SSE member for so long (let alone at all). That's cool. It seems like you're the first person people think of when they think of authorities on tomato taste.

I think you just misunderstood what I meant by 'culturally thought of'. I wasn't saying that Brandywine is a single variety. I was saying that a lot of people seem to think it is (or else they just don't bother to say what kind of Brandywine tomato theirs is). That doesn't mean they're right, or even educated on the matter. It also doesn't mean they're expressing everything they know. It just seems to be a pervasive idea in English-speaking culture (that's the culture I meant). If a person isn't really into tomato varieties, though, the likelihood of them knowing there's more than one kind of Brandywine isn't high. They might just go to their local store, buy Brandywine tomato plants, not knowing what they are, and be done with it, and tell everyone they're growing Brandywine, and say Brandywine tomatoes taste such and such a way compared to Roma, cherry tomatoes, Beefsteak, or whatever (and 'Roma' might be Amish Paste, 'cherry tomatoes' might be Sweet Million, and 'Beefsteak' might be Celebrity, for all we know). In the same vein, 'cherry' is often thought of as a variety, culturally (but it's not). Grape sure is a variety, though, oddly enough (and a hybrid, to boot).

Also, I wasn't meaning to imply that there is or is not any special connection between Yellow Brandywine (Abundant Life) and Brandywine (Sudduth's Strain). I still think it would be good to compare and contrast the two varieties as to how they taste. I'm not sure why you think they shouldn't be compared: I think they should be compared precisely because they are different. If there are no differences, what is there to compare?

[Fred Hempel]

Brandywine is old, so it has had time to diverge, in different hands. This results in lots of strains.

"Brandywine" (like "San Marzano") is a brand. So people will use the moniker, at times, when the genetic connection is tenuous. Simply because the brand sells. This results in even more strains -- some no doubt also from crosses to Brandywine.

How many strains are there? Impossible to know, because not every one is listed on the internet.

[Gardeneer]

Let us name one Cognac, the real thing. hehe

Gardener

Carolyn, I edited my post significantly, if you just read the email. So, I encourage you to read the edit. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Fred Hempel

"Brandywine" (like "San Marzano") is a brand.

Fred, I didn't know San Marzano was one of the more ambiguous tomatoes.

Is Pomodoro San Marzano more specific, or equally ambiguous? I'm growing that this year (probably from American Seed).

[Fred Hempel]

In my opinion, many long paste tomatoes (most with constricted shoulders, but not all) have the name "San Marzano" slapped on them. And, in my opinion, the diversity of fruit shapes one sees when you Google "San Marzano" or the diversity of OP and F1 "San Marzano" seed offerings indicates that the term San Marzano is used loosely.

And, in a "if you can't beat them, join them" move, I must admit that one of the reasons that I named a new paste tomato we are releasing this year "Striped Marzano", was because the "Marzano" means something to people.

However, our Striped Marzano (an OP) is not a complete appropriation of the brand, as it was developed by crossing Speckled Roman with an Italian San Marzano line from the Naples region, and our selections for interior fruit quality was towards San Marzano traits (dry with few seeds).