1st No Till Attempt

[Misfit]

Tree roots... hmm?

My neighbors fir tree is about 20 ft. away. Should I worry? Or maybe chop a 3ft perimeter 3" down surrounding my bed?

-Jimmy

:::EDIT::: yeah I'm probably over thinking it right now, but you can only look at seedlings and seed packs for so long

[dustdevil]

Originally Posted by Misfit

...and lesson learned, plant a winter cover crop to keep all my chopped leaves from blowing away. I may try covering with straw, in the mean time.

Every time the wind blows, it brings to mind the Dust Bowl of the 30's.

Seriously though, it's a small plot; but it's my small plot

-Jimmy

If your tomato patch isn't too big, use chicken wire flat on the ground over the leaves with bricks, cement pieces, etc. to hold down the edges, middle, etc.

[Misfit]

Originally Posted by dustdevil

If your tomato patch isn't too big, use chicken wire flat on the ground over the leaves with bricks, cement pieces, etc. to hold down the edges, middle, etc.

Thanks for the ideas... I was leaning towards a row cover/tarp, but the chicken wire (which I have) idea seems like a winner.

Back to trees and tree roots. I watched a permaculture video last night that had trees and scrubs growing right next to their terraced fields. I wonder if crop rotation, cover crops and grazing animals actually supplied enough nutrients for all to survive, as in everything is in balance?

-Jimmy

[BigVanVader]

Water is likely the main reason tree roots would invade garden areas. Most trees roots go deep enough to access all the nutrients they need. I would try mulching the trees and possibly watering them during hot dry periods (or convince your neighbors to). I had the same issue with my first garden. After mulching the tree (water oak) and running a few drip heads over to it the roots stopped encroaching on my maters. I have 3 water oaks at my new place so we will see if I have any issues with them as I'm doing all no-till lasagne style beds.

[Worth1]

I've been reading this and I must say, all trees are not alike.
The cedar elms we have has roots like a hairball they encroach everywhere and look for water.
I have never seen such roots in my life, the only tree I have ever seen that will choke out our ash juniper.
They are (((((NOT)))) garden friendly by any stretch of the imagination.

Worth

[lexusnexus]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

Water is likely the main reason tree roots would invade garden areas. Most trees roots go deep enough to access all the nutrients they need. I would try mulching the trees and possibly watering them during hot dry periods (or convince your neighbors to). I had the same issue with my first garden. After mulching the tree (water oak) and running a few drip heads over to it the roots stopped encroaching on my maters. I have 3 water oaks at my new place so we will see if I have any issues with them as I'm doing all no-till lasagne style beds.

Worth is correct. About the only reason trees would drive roots deep would be for a water source (desert trees). Most trees may have a tap root that goes down a bit but the majority of their roots remain within the top few feet of the surface.

Dan

[BigVanVader]

Yeah that's why I started watering/mulching the one causing me issues. If you give it all it needs it won't have reason to invade the garden. Ofc not all trees are the same but it is a viable option that worked for me and may for others depending on their unique situation.

[Misfit]

Hi All... wanted to update what's going on with my plot.

Last May, at plant out the soil was rock hard with zero worms. But produced higher than my expectations. I still have tomatoes and beans in the freezer. I kept adding leaf mulch through out the growing season, along with a little grass, coffee grounds, and egg shells. As the first frost neared I cut everything at ground level, and left the roots in the soil.

This year I'm working 3 plots, and various containers. Each seedling was dipped in micros before going into 4" pots, and then again at plant out. The soil was much easier to dig holes for the toms as well, and the best part was 2-4 worms in every hole! I added a bunch of companion plants to the mix as well. Going conservative with only 5 plants here...

-Gary O' Sena
-Girl Girl Weird Thing
-Earls Faux
-Big Rainbow
-Pink Berkeley Tie Dye

Looking forward to good eats; happy growing!!!

-Jimmy

[Redbaron]

Looking good Misfit!

[Mike723]

Looks Great!! I'm loving no-till my self, and surely don't miss taking out the old rototiller.. Also, try pruning the lower branches a little less and you should have even larger yields! =)
I personally strip the first two - three nodes, just enough to keep the leaves off the ground.. Good Luck!

[bughunter99]

Originally Posted by Misfit

Hi All... wanted to update what's going on with my plot.

Last May, at plant out the soil was rock hard with zero worms. But produced higher than my expectations. I still have tomatoes and beans in the freezer. I kept adding leaf mulch through out the growing season, along with a little grass, coffee grounds, and egg shells. As the first frost neared I cut everything at ground level, and left the roots in the soil.

This year I'm working 3 plots, and various containers. Each seedling was dipped in micros before going into 4" pots, and then again at plant out. The soil was much easier to dig holes for the toms as well, and the best part was 2-4 worms in every hole! I added a bunch of companion plants to the mix as well. Going conservative with only 5 plants here...

-Gary O' Sena
-Girl Girl Weird Thing
-Earls Faux
-Big Rainbow
-Pink Berkeley Tie Dye

Looking forward to good eats; happy growing!!!

-Jimmy

It looks great Jimmy! I've been no till for years and it is not only so much easier, the ground has shown me that it likes it better, both with its change in texture and life but also how the plants are so much more resilient. Someone on this forum years ago made a statement about how "all that blue stuff makes your plants green but is killing your soil." I was highly skeptical--I used the blue stuff, but did some research on what "healthy soil" was. I had never heard that term before. I was logical enough that I was willing to give it a try and they results I got, made a convert out of me. Plus it was way easier, which was an easy sell for me! Happy growing indeed!

Stacy

[Worth1]

A garden without life in the soil is a garden with an end.
A garden with life in the soil is a garden for eternity.
Worth

[Gardeneer]

Some said that they don't till because of tree roots.
To me that is to conrary : Need to till because of it, to kill the roots an remove them as much as possible.
But at any event, you cannot/don't want to till, have to dig a hole , condition the soil and fill it back. This should be a less labor intensive way than tilling/ turning over the whole area. Especially if you space the plant like 3 ft. apart. So instead of tilling 9 sq-ft, you just condition a hole withe about 1 sq-ft area per plant JMO.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Some said that they don't till because of tree roots.
To me that is to conrary : Need to till because of it, to kill the roots an remove them as much as possible.
But at any event, you cannot/don't want to till, have to dig a hole , condition the soil and fill it back. This should be a less labor intensive way than tilling/ turning over the whole area. Especially if you space the plant like 3 ft. apart. So instead of tilling 9 sq-ft, you just condition a hole withe about 1 sq-ft area per plant JMO.

The holes I dig for plants are a few inches in diameter, simply cut with a sod plugger or bulb planter.

I let the worms condition the soil. They do a very good job of it.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

The holes I dig for plants are a few inches in diameter, simply cut with a sod plugger or bulb planter.

I let the worms condition the soil. They do a very good job of it.

When I did the no till with around 24 plants of tomato and the same with peppers and around 12 squash.
Around 4 swisschard plants.
2 rows of cucumbers 20 feet long10 feet tall on a trellis.
Okra around the garden.

The holes were about the size of a tennis ball, just enough to get the plug in or plant the seeds.
Somewhere on a drive I have the pictures.
Did it all with a small garden hoe I found in the neighbors trash that was broken and I welded back together.

Worth