2017 Grafting thread: Open to all - Page 27

AlittleSalt · May 24, 2017

I didn't realize the pictures would show that bright. Here's the inside of the stem. The juice is clear.

b54red · May 24, 2017

Salt it looks like in the second picture that plant might have the early symptoms of fusarium but I sure can't be sure just from that. The stem you cut is probably too small to show fusarium. To tell for sure you need to cut off a main stem that has yellowing leaves down near the start of that stem. Look at the center of that larger stem and if it is green and clear like normal then you either don't have fusarium or it is still too early to show symptoms but usually when yellowing leaves and wilting are taking place it will usually show discoloration inside the stem. You could also take a stem and cut it off from one of the plants that is wilting badly and stick it in a clear vase of water and look for a cloudy milky substance to leach out into the water. If that happens you could be looking at bacterial wilt. The only way to check for nematodes that I know of is to just pull one of the plants that is doing the poorest and look at the roots.

If it isn't one of those problems then I have no idea what is going on with your plants. I am leaning towards nematodes but it could easily be one of the others or something else. However with Bacterial wilt I don't think the plants recover from the wilting very much at night but it has been a few years since I had a case of it and I pulled the plant immediately and doused the ground where it was with a bleach solution.

I guess we are now getting that rain that you had. It started raining four days ago off and on and it is still doing it; but I think it is nearly gone now. However we only got about 3 to 4 inches but enough to cause fruit to start splitting and I'm sure the foliage diseases will now move in big time.

Good luck. I hope you can get this problem figured out. It is awfully frustrating when you don't know what is causing the problem.

Bill

AlittleSalt · May 24, 2017

Thanks Bill. Yes, it is frustrating not knowing. Tomorrow and the next day should be a real test for them in 95+ heat.

Getting back to the grafting part, our two Big Beef plants are looking really good growing out in the RKN garden. They have a lot of tomatoes on them. I'm talking to my wife about grafting next year using Big Beef as the root stock.

Would F2 Big Beef still be VFFNTA? If so, I could save lots of seeds from the ones growing in the RKN garden. Then graft to the F2 root stock.

b54red · May 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Thanks Bill. Yes, it is frustrating not knowing. Tomorrow and the next day should be a real test for them in 95+ heat.

Getting back to the grafting part, our two Big Beef plants are looking really good growing out in the RKN garden. They have a lot of tomatoes on them. I'm talking to my wife about grafting next year using Big Beef as the root stock.

Would F2 Big Beef still be VFFNTA? If so, I could save lots of seeds from the ones growing in the RKN garden. Then graft to the F2 root stock.

Big Beef will work as a root stock. I used to plant 4 or 5 Big Beefs every year as my insurance tomato until that third race of fusarium started to ruin my insurance. I have actually used Big Beef as a root stock and it worked fairly good against nematodes but that third race of fusarium finally took down all my plants grafted onto Big Beef but at least they lasted a month longer than they would have not grafted.

If Big Beef lasts til late July or into August in your garden without getting fusarium wilt you might be able to use it as your main root stock.

Bill

Yak54 · May 25, 2017

This years grafting project has given me 9 good grafted plants out of 14 that I grafted. 5 didn't make it. Used Estamino root stock this year. should be able to put some of these in the ground in about 10 days or so. More will be revealed as the season goes on.

Dan

Yak54 · May 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Has anyone tried Supernatural root stock?

http://www.territorialseed.com/produ...ll_tomato_seed

Ya, I tried it in 2015. Grafted Stump of the World and Brandywine Cowlick's to it with good results.

Dan

AlittleSalt · May 26, 2017

Well, the plant I showed pictures of looked so bad today with the high temp in the 80s with solid cloud cover.

Bill, I did the things you wrote about in post #392. I put a branch and a split branch in water and no cloudy milky substance. The upper branches didn't show discoloration inside, but the base sure did. The third picture is right above the roots. I believe the last picture explains a lot - that's RKN in those roots.

The area that is brownish on the inside doesn't smell right either.

Cole_Robbie · May 26, 2017

I don't see knots. Is it possible you have Corky Root, and not nematodes?

AlittleSalt · May 26, 2017

Cole, I had not heard of Corky root Rot until now. I'm reading here http://www.seminis-us.com/resources/...orky-root-rot/

A couple of pictures after washing the roots off

Cole_Robbie · May 26, 2017

ok. now I see the knots on the side roots. I was looking at pictures of RKN roots and Corky roots, and they are hard to tell apart.

b54red · May 26, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak54

This years grafting project has given me 9 good grafted plants out of 14 that I grafted. 5 didn't make it. Used Estamino root stock this year. should be able to put some of these in the ground in about 10 days or so. More will be revealed as the season goes on.

Dan

One variety that I have found that really benefits from Estamino is Delicious. The plant will be more productive, the fruit larger and the plant much healthier and robust than with any other root stock I have used. Red Barn and Donskoi also do very well on Estamino.

Bill

b54red · May 26, 2017

Salt the stem looks like fusarium and the RKN is not bad enough yet to affect the plant negatively.

Bill

AlittleSalt · May 26, 2017

Thank you again Bill. I haven't grown many hybrids that are F,FF,FFF,N - In fact, Celebrity and Big Beef are the only two that come-to-mind right now.

Well, it gives me a reason to look through catalogs and online catalogs for VFN varieties that sound good. Who knows which varieties will grow best in our gardens, and we might even like them better? Grafting sounds like fun too.

Father'sDaughter · May 26, 2017

Salt, your cut stem looks exactly like mine have the last few years that disease has taken down my plants early and fast. I also had screaming yellow leaves all up one side of the plants. So many people have tried to tell me it's impossible for me to have fusarium up here in New England...

If you do your homework, learn from other's mistakes and successes, and come up with a plan and stick to it, grafting can be relatively easy to pull off. And it'll free you to grow whatever you want as long as you have the right rootstock for a foundation.

Yak54 · May 27, 2017

Thanks for your feedback Bill. Glad to hear the heart Donskoi does well, cause I have some Anna Russian's grafted to it. Also Stump of the World, Brandywine Cowlick's, Momotaro, Dr. Lyle, and Polish. Looking forward to the results this season.

Dan

May 24, 2017	#392
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Salt it looks like in the second picture that plant might have the early symptoms of fusarium but I sure can't be sure just from that. The stem you cut is probably too small to show fusarium. To tell for sure you need to cut off a main stem that has yellowing leaves down near the start of that stem. Look at the center of that larger stem and if it is green and clear like normal then you either don't have fusarium or it is still too early to show symptoms but usually when yellowing leaves and wilting are taking place it will usually show discoloration inside the stem. You could also take a stem and cut it off from one of the plants that is wilting badly and stick it in a clear vase of water and look for a cloudy milky substance to leach out into the water. If that happens you could be looking at bacterial wilt. The only way to check for nematodes that I know of is to just pull one of the plants that is doing the poorest and look at the roots. If it isn't one of those problems then I have no idea what is going on with your plants. I am leaning towards nematodes but it could easily be one of the others or something else. However with Bacterial wilt I don't think the plants recover from the wilting very much at night but it has been a few years since I had a case of it and I pulled the plant immediately and doused the ground where it was with a bleach solution. I guess we are now getting that rain that you had. It started raining four days ago off and on and it is still doing it; but I think it is nearly gone now. However we only got about 3 to 4 inches but enough to cause fruit to start splitting and I'm sure the foliage diseases will now move in big time. Good luck. I hope you can get this problem figured out. It is awfully frustrating when you don't know what is causing the problem. Bill

May 24, 2017	#393
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Thanks Bill. Yes, it is frustrating not knowing. Tomorrow and the next day should be a real test for them in 95+ heat. Getting back to the grafting part, our two Big Beef plants are looking really good growing out in the RKN garden. They have a lot of tomatoes on them. I'm talking to my wife about grafting next year using Big Beef as the root stock. Would F2 Big Beef still be VFFNTA? If so, I could save lots of seeds from the ones growing in the RKN garden. Then graft to the F2 root stock.

May 25, 2017	#395
Yak54 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: Madison, OH, zone 6 Posts: 461	This years grafting project has given me 9 good grafted plants out of 14 that I grafted. 5 didn't make it. Used Estamino root stock this year. should be able to put some of these in the ground in about 10 days or so. More will be revealed as the season goes on. Dan

May 26, 2017	#398
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I don't see knots. Is it possible you have Corky Root, and not nematodes?

May 26, 2017	#400
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	ok. now I see the knots on the side roots. I was looking at pictures of RKN roots and Corky roots, and they are hard to tell apart.

May 26, 2017	#402
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Salt the stem looks like fusarium and the RKN is not bad enough yet to affect the plant negatively. Bill

May 26, 2017	#403
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Thank you again Bill. I haven't grown many hybrids that are F,FF,FFF,N - In fact, Celebrity and Big Beef are the only two that come-to-mind right now. Well, it gives me a reason to look through catalogs and online catalogs for VFN varieties that sound good. Who knows which varieties will grow best in our gardens, and we might even like them better? Grafting sounds like fun too.

May 26, 2017	#404
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,917	Salt, your cut stem looks exactly like mine have the last few years that disease has taken down my plants early and fast. I also had screaming yellow leaves all up one side of the plants. So many people have tried to tell me it's impossible for me to have fusarium up here in New England... If you do your homework, learn from other's mistakes and successes, and come up with a plan and stick to it, grafting can be relatively easy to pull off. And it'll free you to grow whatever you want as long as you have the right rootstock for a foundation.

May 27, 2017	#405
Yak54 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: Madison, OH, zone 6 Posts: 461	Thanks for your feedback Bill. Glad to hear the heart Donskoi does well, cause I have some Anna Russian's grafted to it. Also Stump of the World, Brandywine Cowlick's, Momotaro, Dr. Lyle, and Polish. Looking forward to the results this season. Dan