Russian Cossack

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by marktutt

Tom's hopes are that interesting segregations are sent back to him for possible use/grow out but I believe the answer usually given is that once a grower has taken a line out several generations and stabilized it they can name it while giving attribution to the original breeder.

I believe Vintage Wine came out of Tom's early release of Brandystripe this way.

I know Tom has been asking growers to send seed back as he didn't have a great tomato season this year, I'd send him a PM and find out if this is one he'd like back.

About Brandystripe and Vintage Wine.

The following link to an earlier discussion of Vintage Wine and Brandystripe:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=3275

And Tania's page for the following:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...andy_Stripe_F1

And another from Tania:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Vintage_Wine

All to say that the two Brandystripes I trialed for Tom in the early 90's were identical except for leaf form, one was PL, the other one was PL Angora and they were absolutely gorgeous as to the fruit colors. The fruits had wide discrete bands of various colors that looked like someone had colored them with crayons.

But IMO the taste was lousy and I told Tom that.

He then crossed Brandywine X Brandystripe, link above.

To my knowledge Tom never released either of the Brandystripes and I didn't send them to anyone b'c Tom asked me not to. Just last year I sent some old seeds of them to someone to see if he could get them going, I had few seeds, and he couldn't. And I did that b'c while Tom had asked me not to share seeds of any of the ones he sent me for trial, all of a sudden I saw Casady's Folly, Verde Claro, Chile Verde PaPa Grape and several others being SSE listed.

A bit more background.

I was the one who introduced Tom to Kees Sahin in the Netherlands, having known Kees for quite a few years b/c he subscribed to Off The Vine, the heirloom newletter that Craig LeHoullier and I were doing at the time. At that Time Tom was complaining about not getting his varieties out there and that he was becoming not as well known as he used to be, so I thought that maybe Kees and he could work something out since Sahin Seeds is a large company and very well known.

Kees flew him to the Netherlands a couple of times and Kees also sent his garden Manager to Tom in the US. Kees also introduced him to some potato growers in the Netherlands.

Now here's where things get icky and I'm going to watch my words. Tom sent a first batch of seeds to Kees and a second batch was to follow. In the meantime Kees had rented an extra very large greenhouse in anticipation of that second batch.

Tom never sent them.

I also tried to help Tom by suggesting to him that he might want to send seeds of Verde Claro to Linda at TGS just to get his name out there. I love Verde Claro. Linda said fine, Tom never sent them.

I first got to know TOm in 1990 when he called me to ask if I could help support him, with money. He had initially called Rob Johnston at Johnny's Seeds and Rob referred him to me.

Through all these years I've tried to help, as have others, and it never worked out so I was at last finally glad to see that he got his own website set up and was selling seeds.

I can't find ONE picture of the original Brandystripe online but all I have to do is close my eyes and I can see it very clearly.

But Brandystripe and Vintage Wine are NOT the same as some have claimed, note the one link from Tania, and it was Tom himself who did that cross between Brandywine X Brandystripe.

Enough for now.

Ah memories.

BTW Kees passed away several years ago, way too young, but his wife Elisabeth and perhaps one of their sons now runs Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands. Kees had a HUGE tomato collection, and some of the original packs of seeds from Ben Quisenberry with religious quotations written on them as Ben was wont to do. I know that I had sent about 300 varieties to Kees and at one time he was interested in buying a seed company here in the US, and I'm pretty sure it was SASE when Jeff MCCormick put it up for sale but eventually sold it to others.

OK, I wrote too much, that I know, but it's cold in here and typing keeps my fingers warm.

[Andrey_BY]

Here all of you can find more about Russian Cossacks and probably would like to grab some names from their history for new varieties stabilized from RC and offer to use them by Tom or by yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

And this one is Ukrainian Cossack from our famous Soviet animated film

[RobinB]

Interesting stuff, thanks Andrey! I love history, and this is not a subject that I know much about.

I really wonder WHY this cross was called Russian Cossack? I want to know more about its lineage. Maybe we can ask Tom to tell us sometime. I usually think of Russian tomatoes as being somewhat early, but this tomato was over 90 days in this garden in this year.

[delltraveller]

http://tomatoville.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=24

[RobinB]

Thanks, delltraveller! I hadn't seen that post. So, he does want feedback... hmmm. It sure would have been helpful if he had been able to communicate that to us. I wonder who the other people are (I've met about 8-9 here on Tomatoville) that bought Russian Cossack?

This is the description of Russian Cossack (2.5", black with pink and green stripes) that I saw when I bought the seed. Mine are about 3" to 3.5", and pink not black. I did find a photo of Join or Die, and it's closer to what I have, although it looks to be pink with metallic green stripes, and smooth. There's no way to tell what size they are from the photo. Mine are lumpy and fluted and the stripes are different. Mine is determinate... I think. I'm so new at all of this analyzing, photographing, and measuring stuff. What IS semi-determinate? Mine didn't put out any more blooms after setting fruit, and they are all ripening within a week or so of each other.

I wonder who got Mix the Two, and if the seed packets said so? I'm sounding grumpy again, aren't I? Sorry.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

With Tom saying he sent out F1 and F2 seeds to people for Russian Cossack there could be almost anything out there under that name. I know he mentioned sending different generations of seeds out to people for at least one other variety I got, the first people got F4 and later got earlier generations.

Your's does look more like Join or Die now that you point that out.

Mix the Two Tom said he sent to just two people, I managed to trade for seeds with one of them and have pictures posted in my photo thread of it. The person I got them from lost both their Muddy Waters and Mix the Two plants so it's hard to tell. Unfortunately it's late for me and I've not been able to save a ton of seeds to send back to him. It's currently covered with (hard) green fruit though.

[RobinB]

They are all picked, and just in the nick of time. Our first cold front comes through on Wednesday or Thursday. The shoulders were green with some blue too, and the bottoms were dark pink. The largest was 7.6 oz. Most ripened within a two week period. Good taste, I'd give it a 7.5/10.

Seed is fermenting now. I seeded everything I had, so there is a lot. If you would like some, please send me a SASE. PM me for the address. I'm happy to share!

Robin

[Minnesota Mato]

Has anyone saved seeds of their russian cossack and grew them this year? I planted seeds from the tomato from the picture on the very first post and my plants are all over the place. None are ripe yet but some have stripes, some don't. Some are round and small and some are long and big. I just wondered what anyone else was getting.
Craig

[Boutique Tomatoes]

This appears to be another one that was a rather early generation. I've had a fair amount of variation in mine this year as well. Just yesterday I decided to save seeds from a particularly nice looking smaller oblate example with good taste and a bit of shelf life. Most of the ones I grew last year were pretty but didn't last more than a day or two before turning to mush.

[Tom Wagner]

Help me please....I don't go to every sub forum on Tomatoville and the Photo Galery is one that I have seldom gone to. So many posts and I had no idea that anyone was interested in my Russian Cossack variety!

I have some great tasting and great performing Russian Cossacks this year. Very determinate and productive. They had a nice purple/blue blush on the shoulders.






Below some sliced tomatoes from Russian Cossack. The ketchup I made from it was a rich mahogany red and had an "Out of this World" flavor!





My naming this variety Russian Cossack has to do with the pedigree as Black Russian was involved Also, the stereotype of burly men in exquisite uniforms was visualized. Hence, ……..the RUSSIAN COSSACK. Doesn't hurt to think that the name means "Free Man" exactly what we all want to be.

BTW, I don't mind people trading seed of my varieties, but I prefer to have my stamp of approval on my varieties and I am going to increase my seed from single vines and offer them on my websites. If you want the "kosher" variety by all means buy the seed...the money helps me maintain the work I do. I should be able to send out very uniform seed lines and I think my creations should be honored that way.

Do I like to get seed back from folks who either bought or traded my varieties? You bet...that is implied.... but you may not know that if you got seed in trade. It would be great if a dozen or more people sent their selections of Russian Cossack or other lines back to me that did well for them. I know Mark has but I have not heard from others.

Tom Wagner

BTW, private email me or better call me on the phone if there are posts I need to answer. Thanks.

[loulac]

Russian Cossack (continued)

Let me add some details about the different looks Russian Cossack can have. Seeds were bought from you by a French grower who shared the packet with 2 friends. In 2012 they got unexpected results see
http://tomodori.com/forum/topic10112...l?hilit=bordel
http://tomodori.com/forum/post206959...bordel#p206959

In 2013 Albo; your fan that pasted the pictures of striped tomatoes on your thread http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...t=29841&page=2 ordered a new set of seeds from you and noticed there are fewer variations, the fruit is paler and has more colors. You will find some pictures – excuse the French- there : http://tomodori.com/forum/topic11736-975.html

[carolyn137]

Dans le chapitre Saison 5 chez Flore et Florette, pour être plus précis à http://tomodori.com/forum/post244599.html#p=244547 Albo a affiché toutes les zébrées récentes de Tom Wagner ce qui lui vaut les chaleureux remerciements de Carolyn 137 et de TW. Ce dernier regrette de ne pas avoir le temps de parler du goût, étant très occupé par la récolte de graines de tomates et de pommes de terre. Quand il aura un peu de temps libre il fera ses commentaires sur le site.

&&&&&

I see my user name at TVille there but I don't know enough French to be able to translate what you wrote Lou.

So how about translating it for me?

Carolyn, who enjoys the pictures but wonders why so many of them have rotten areas at the stem end. I guess probably due to radial or concentric splitting and then the open splits are open to all sorts of molds and bacteria in the environment, and the splits encouraged due to perhaps heavy rains, since normally those splits would heal.

[loulac]

Carolyn137 wrote :
I see my user name at TVille there but I don't know enough French to be able to translate what you wrote Lou.

I’ll be glad to translate the post sent to Tomodori :

Albo pasted on Tomodori the pictures of Tom Wagner’s latest striped tomatoes [ which I then posted on Tomatoville]. He was warmly thanked by Carolyn 137 and T.W.. The latter regrets he can’t now give details about their taste, he is very busy collecting tomato and potato seeds. When he has some free time he will eventually make comments on his site.

I hope I kept close to what you both wrote in your posts. If I didn’t I apologise, any mistake was unintentional !

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by loulac

I’ll be glad to translate the post sent to Tomodori :

Albo pasted on Tomodori the pictures of Tom Wagner’s latest striped tomatoes [ which I then posted on Tomatoville]. He was warmly thanked by Carolyn 137 and T.W.. The latter regrets he can’t now give details about their taste, he is very busy collecting tomato and potato seeds. When he has some free time he will eventually make comments on his site.

I hope I kept close to what you both wrote in your posts. If I didn’t I apologise, any mistake was unintentional !

No mistakes as far as what I wrote in the other thread which was:

(Lou, thanks so much for the link to Tomodori and that thread b'c now everyone can see ALL of the pictures from ALL of the links that Tom gave in that post.)

And now with your tranlation I went back to the French, and yes, I could understand quite a few of the words but was too timid to try and translate it.

So thanks again.

That looks like a wonderful message site at Tomodori, but not for me b'c my French isn't up to it.

I can read a menu in French/

I can say Jedrais a omlette Jabon avec pommes frites.

I can say Ave vou un chambre pour une jeunne fille.

I can say give me the best Montrachet in many languages.

And don't laugh at my spelling in French.I never took French as a foreign language, but for my advanced degree I had to translate from French to English which wasn't that bad since it was all science.

The first time I was in France I remember two elderly ladies sitting at a table near me, both Americans, who were upset because the waiters didn't speak English. So they decided to leave France and go to Spain.

I always wondered how that worked out for them.

Carolyn, who at one time was OK with German since she did take that in college but spent most of her time in Germany saying.....etvas langsammer, bitte.... which means, when referring to the spoken word, speak more slowly, please.

[Simone]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Carolyn, who at one time was OK with German since she did take that in college but spent most of her time in Germany saying.....etvas langsammer, bitte.... which means, when referring to the spoken word, speak more slowly, please.

Sorry... no!
Etwas langsamer, bitte.

I can´t rather read or speak French, I am still struggling with your language ... but I know my first language.
Hope I could help.

Simone