Triple Variety Tomato Graft Experiment - Page 32

Delerium · January 16, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclum

Hi Delerium,

Great looking grafts! I started a few little (as in "teeny-tiny") grafts the same day you did your grafts. Got impatient and grafted them much too young, but I think 2 of the first 3 are in the clear, not sure about a couple of others I did a few days later. They're only1 inch tall if that, so I don't have high hopes. Just wanted to get my feet wet, so to speak. Have started seeds for RST-04-105-T and Estamino rootstock. Most have now germinated and I will be starting my scions soon - so still a bit away from my more "serious' grafting endeavors.

What varieties are you using this year - or are there just too many to list right now

?

Amazing mushrooms!! I hope I can grow some of my own this time around.

Anne

Sorry Anne! Didn't mean to tease ya with my grafts then rush ya hehe. This year i did cut down on the number of varieties. Unless its something outstanding & highly recommended by Tomatoville, I am going to stick to varieties i like the best this year. I decided to stick to a hybrid rootstock (Big Beef) only because I want to be able to eat the tomatoes from the rootstock. Most will be either dual or triple combos. Once i have a good amount of grafts then i will have fun doing the crazy combos.

I started playing with new mushrooms now. Working on Pink Oyster, Shiitake, Lionsmane and Reishi that i hope to grow in rotations.. So i have some variety.

January 16, 2015

Hi Delerium,

Are your videos still available on YouTube? The last time I tried to view them, YouTube said they were 'Private'...

Thanks!

Mike

Delerium · January 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBiondo

Hi Delerium,

Are your videos still available on YouTube? The last time I tried to view them, YouTube said they were 'Private'...

Thanks!

Mike

Hey Mike! It's available and i just made it public for you. The video is no good though - my grafting technique has changed since i did this video so its way out of date. Hope you find it useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RImyEiHpq6U

January 17, 2015

Thanks Delerium!

I've completely read through, and have been following this thread...most interesting! Hopefully I should be able to spot where you made improvements, and doing things differently now.

Mike

Delerium · January 18, 2015

I have reduced the size of the humidity chamber. No heat or keeping plants in total darkness like in the video. I've added a filter to the humidity chamber so there is air exchange while maintaining high humidity. So it doesn't get all stagnant in there. I work with smaller plants (that fit the clips) because the recovery time is faster.

peebee · January 18, 2015

That was very helpful to watch, thanks Delerium! I will keep your updated advice in mind when I do it. You mention that you have reduced the size of the humidity chamber-- I was planning on going to Target to buy a storage bin for the chamber, how high would you say is the maximum height I would need? In other words, how much space should there be between the top of the graft and the cover? I am so excited about starting, I think I can do it your way!

Delerium · January 18, 2015

Peebee the new humidity chamber is the size of a shoe box. About 6-7 inches tall. I put 2 grafts in 1 clear container to save space and maximize the number of plants i can put in a small area.

Delerium · January 18, 2015

No root tomato graft now has roots. It's amazing how well these little rootless plants recover after being chopped in half. Tomato plants are tough buggers.

aclum · January 18, 2015

Hi Delerium,

Funny thing..... I was re-reading the following older (2010) master's thesis on grafting - done at KSU with Cary Rivard as the student's faculty advisor. (Rivard had sort of been my on-line grafting humidity/healing chamber guru).

https://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bits...pdf?sequence=1

There were two little bits of info that apparently didn't really sink in on the first quick read of the article that I did when I was first getting into grafting:

1) the conclusion that a humidity or healing chamber might not even be necessary

2) one could have successful grafts removing the meristem (?) and all the foliage above the cotyledons on the scion!

The logic behind the second point was that less foliage=less transpiration. Generalizing, the grafts worked but total yield was reduced - seemingly because the plants took longer to start producing and catch up with the other types of grafts.

And to think of the hours I spent (or wasted) in trying to come up with my own little humidity chamber design

! At least I had fun doing it

While on the subject

, I improvised a healing type of set-up for my little teeny-tiny grafting experiment. I did the no-root grafts in 3 oz clear plastic cups with drain holes in the bottom and filled with Optisorb that had been pre-soaked with diluted (1 teaspoon/half gallon of water) Texas Tomato Food. I followed your no-root grafting procedure (pre-soaking the scion and rootstock bits in plain water for 5-10 minutes prior to grafting). Prior to soaking, I removed most of the foliage from the scions.

After doing the grafts, I put the 3 oz cups in 5.3 oz Chobani yogurt cups. I then placed a series of 10 oz plastic cups over the grafts, with the lip of the 10 oz cup resting on the inner lip or shelf of the yogurt cups to act as a sort of humidity dome. (The 10 oz cups I had on hand worked well with the Chobani cups, but got tippy when I tried cups of other yogurt brands). I didn't mist the inside of the cups or the plants themselves and the 10 oz cup "domes" didn't touch the plants.

I kept the grafts at room temp in indirect lighting and, generally, lifted the tops of the cups several times a day to check on things and give the grafts a little fresh air. I went through the following sequence of 10 oz covers:

Translucent cups - no holes (to start)
Translucent cups - 3 holes (around day 3)
Clear cup - no holes (around day 4)
Clear cup - holes (around day 5)
No cup (around day 6)
No cup but moved close to, but not under fluorescent lights (day 7)
Under fluorescent lights but at a distance (day 8)
Under fluorescent lights about 3" from light (day 9)

Today's Day 10 from grafting and 3 of the 5 grafts seem to have survived: Santa Clara Canner and Eva Purple Ball each on Estamino and Eva Purple Ball on Yorkbec. One of the failures just didn't have a close enough graft alignment and not sure what went wrong with the other (but I suspect that I just manhandled it too much trying to get some sort of a connection between the teeny-tiny bits of rootstock and scion).

As you must know by now, I like to needlessly complicate things

. I doubt that this system would be workable on a larger scale. With just 5 grafts going it was like playing "guess which cup the ball is under" at times

. And, now that I look back on it, my cup sequencing doesn't entirely seem to make sense - but oh well

!

FWIW,
Anne

peebee · January 18, 2015

I see from your photo now, Delerium, that I could've gotten the same shoebox at Target (can tell by the lid) but I didn't see it till now so what I got is about 5 in tall. I can exchange it if I should get the taller one. Should I? It's no big deal for me to do so, and I don't want to squish them plus the extra inch or so would give them more room for air to circulate.
One more thing, is it really that important for the small pots to be clear like yours are? There must be a reason as you seem to do things with a purpose.
Thanks!

Delerium · January 18, 2015

Peebee i got mine from Costco. It was like a bulk deal. Yeah its better to get a slightly taller one to give the plants a little bit of head room. Other than that it doesn't matter the type of clear box. The reason the small pots are clear is so i can see the roots. See what i do is once i see the roots i pull the plant out plant them in regular 72 tray pots so i can do new grafts and reuse those clear containers /w DE for new grafts.

peebee · January 19, 2015

Gotcha! Thanks again for being so patient with so many questions. I will post here later when I start grafting--hopefully with happy news

.

Steelcurtain67 · January 24, 2015

A good way to get very high humidity in your healing chamber and at the same time reduce the risk of fungus infections is to put newspaper in the chamber arraigned so the sheets on the side extend into the bottom. Then put a shallow layer of 3% hydrogen peroxide in the bottom, with a support to keep your plants out of it. You can spray the paper on the side to help it stick. The hydrogen peroxide will kill any bacteria or fungi that contact the paper and the humidity will stay very near 100%. The hydrogen peroxide has a much lower vapor pressure then water so very little of it will evaporate into the chamber. This method is very similar to the way that TLC devlopment tanks are pre equilibrated but you do need to change the hydrogen peroxide solution once in a while as it will decompose as time goes on.

Delerium · February 25, 2015

Tomatoes are in the ground and doing well. Here are some of our Oyster Mushroom grows.. Both the pink oyster and store bought oyster was cloned from a flush.

peebee · February 25, 2015

Holey Moley look at the size of those mushrooms! Amazing as usual Delerium.
Please show pics on the tomatoes too when you get a chance. How big are they when you plant outdoors? I'm thinking of planting mine soon also, as its quite warm now and the nights are in the mid 50s to 60's.
I have not grafted any plants yet, still waiting for them to grow a bit more. But the ones I will not graft, I figure why not plant soon. I've heard of people planting out as small as when the second set of leaves appear.
Love those lovely models in your pics too

.

January 18, 2015	#474
aclum Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Merced, CA Posts: 832	Hi Delerium, Funny thing..... I was re-reading the following older (2010) master's thesis on grafting - done at KSU with Cary Rivard as the student's faculty advisor. (Rivard had sort of been my on-line grafting humidity/healing chamber guru). https://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bits...pdf?sequence=1 There were two little bits of info that apparently didn't really sink in on the first quick read of the article that I did when I was first getting into grafting: 1) the conclusion that a humidity or healing chamber might not even be necessary 2) one could have successful grafts removing the meristem (?) and all the foliage above the cotyledons on the scion! The logic behind the second point was that less foliage=less transpiration. Generalizing, the grafts worked but total yield was reduced - seemingly because the plants took longer to start producing and catch up with the other types of grafts. And to think of the hours I spent (or wasted) in trying to come up with my own little humidity chamber design! At least I had fun doing it While on the subject , I improvised a healing type of set-up for my little teeny-tiny grafting experiment. I did the no-root grafts in 3 oz clear plastic cups with drain holes in the bottom and filled with Optisorb that had been pre-soaked with diluted (1 teaspoon/half gallon of water) Texas Tomato Food. I followed your no-root grafting procedure (pre-soaking the scion and rootstock bits in plain water for 5-10 minutes prior to grafting). Prior to soaking, I removed most of the foliage from the scions. After doing the grafts, I put the 3 oz cups in 5.3 oz Chobani yogurt cups. I then placed a series of 10 oz plastic cups over the grafts, with the lip of the 10 oz cup resting on the inner lip or shelf of the yogurt cups to act as a sort of humidity dome. (The 10 oz cups I had on hand worked well with the Chobani cups, but got tippy when I tried cups of other yogurt brands). I didn't mist the inside of the cups or the plants themselves and the 10 oz cup "domes" didn't touch the plants. I kept the grafts at room temp in indirect lighting and, generally, lifted the tops of the cups several times a day to check on things and give the grafts a little fresh air. I went through the following sequence of 10 oz covers: Translucent cups - no holes (to start) Translucent cups - 3 holes (around day 3) Clear cup - no holes (around day 4) Clear cup - holes (around day 5) No cup (around day 6) No cup but moved close to, but not under fluorescent lights (day 7) Under fluorescent lights but at a distance (day 8) Under fluorescent lights about 3" from light (day 9) Today's Day 10 from grafting and 3 of the 5 grafts seem to have survived: Santa Clara Canner and Eva Purple Ball each on Estamino and Eva Purple Ball on Yorkbec. One of the failures just didn't have a close enough graft alignment and not sure what went wrong with the other (but I suspect that I just manhandled it too much trying to get some sort of a connection between the teeny-tiny bits of rootstock and scion). As you must know by now, I like to needlessly complicate things. I doubt that this system would be workable on a larger scale. With just 5 grafts going it was like playing "guess which cup the ball is under" at times. And, now that I look back on it, my cup sequencing doesn't entirely seem to make sense - but oh well ! FWIW, Anne

January 24, 2015	#478
Steelcurtain67 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: PA Posts: 4	A good way to get very high humidity in your healing chamber and at the same time reduce the risk of fungus infections is to put newspaper in the chamber arraigned so the sheets on the side extend into the bottom. Then put a shallow layer of 3% hydrogen peroxide in the bottom, with a support to keep your plants out of it. You can spray the paper on the side to help it stick. The hydrogen peroxide will kill any bacteria or fungi that contact the paper and the humidity will stay very near 100%. The hydrogen peroxide has a much lower vapor pressure then water so very little of it will evaporate into the chamber. This method is very similar to the way that TLC devlopment tanks are pre equilibrated but you do need to change the hydrogen peroxide solution once in a while as it will decompose as time goes on. Last edited by Steelcurtain67; January 24, 2015 at 09:09 PM.

January 16, 2015	#467
MikeBiondo Guest Posts: n/a	Hi Delerium, Are your videos still available on YouTube? The last time I tried to view them, YouTube said they were 'Private'... Thanks! Mike

January 17, 2015	#469
MikeBiondo Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks Delerium! I've completely read through, and have been following this thread...most interesting! Hopefully I should be able to spot where you made improvements, and doing things differently now. Mike

January 18, 2015	#470
Delerium Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: California Posts: 942	I have reduced the size of the humidity chamber. No heat or keeping plants in total darkness like in the video. I've added a filter to the humidity chamber so there is air exchange while maintaining high humidity. So it doesn't get all stagnant in there. I work with smaller plants (that fit the clips) because the recovery time is faster.

January 18, 2015	#471
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	That was very helpful to watch, thanks Delerium! I will keep your updated advice in mind when I do it. You mention that you have reduced the size of the humidity chamber-- I was planning on going to Target to buy a storage bin for the chamber, how high would you say is the maximum height I would need? In other words, how much space should there be between the top of the graft and the cover? I am so excited about starting, I think I can do it your way!

January 18, 2015	#475
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	I see from your photo now, Delerium, that I could've gotten the same shoebox at Target (can tell by the lid) but I didn't see it till now so what I got is about 5 in tall. I can exchange it if I should get the taller one. Should I? It's no big deal for me to do so, and I don't want to squish them plus the extra inch or so would give them more room for air to circulate. One more thing, is it really that important for the small pots to be clear like yours are? There must be a reason as you seem to do things with a purpose. Thanks!

January 18, 2015	#476
Delerium Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: California Posts: 942	Peebee i got mine from Costco. It was like a bulk deal. Yeah its better to get a slightly taller one to give the plants a little bit of head room. Other than that it doesn't matter the type of clear box. The reason the small pots are clear is so i can see the roots. See what i do is once i see the roots i pull the plant out plant them in regular 72 tray pots so i can do new grafts and reuse those clear containers /w DE for new grafts.

January 19, 2015	#477
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Gotcha! Thanks again for being so patient with so many questions. I will post here later when I start grafting--hopefully with happy news .

February 25, 2015	#480
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Holey Moley look at the size of those mushrooms! Amazing as usual Delerium. Please show pics on the tomatoes too when you get a chance. How big are they when you plant outdoors? I'm thinking of planting mine soon also, as its quite warm now and the nights are in the mid 50s to 60's. I have not grafted any plants yet, still waiting for them to grow a bit more. But the ones I will not graft, I figure why not plant soon. I've heard of people planting out as small as when the second set of leaves appear. Love those lovely models in your pics too .