Raybo's InnTainer 2011/12 Winter Indoor Tomato Project - Year #2 (pics)

[z_willus_d]

If only...if only. I'd love for it to be that simple. I've cut the ferts out. We'll find out soon enough. Thanks for keeping up with the back and forth. I think I'm ready to sign off for the night. I have another back-breaking day filling in the new beds tomorrow. Sometimes three-day weekends are less than blessings. It's work that has to get done, so I'll count it as a blessing even if my back will not.
-naysen

[lakelady]

Ray, plants are looking marvelous as usual!

[z_willus_d]

Well Ray-- Since I last posted, I've had the daily shame of having to pluck or pickup 4-6 dropped fruities. I will not call them blossoms, as the blossoms don't drop. No it's more insidious. They wait until I think there it is...that one will turn to fruit, and then right when it starts to bulge, then it drops off. I open them up, and lo within is a little aborted fruitie. I've taken to running a space heater between the racks through their night hours. I've got my money on either the cold or perhaps some kind of weird over-fertilization reaction with the worm castings plus half-strength tiger-bloom application. In a couple days, they'll all get their second watering sans fert. So sad, so sad.
-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

I would bet anything it is not due to your temps in the garage. During my Spring when I put the plants outside, we regularly see night-time temps in the 40s. And I don't see excessive blossom drop.

Your plants in a weird sort of way, look TOO healthy to me - thick stems and the foliage is beautiful - - but my money is still on over-fertilization.

What pH reading did you get in the Grow Media?

I just looked at my plants tonight, and not a single additional blossom drop beyond the two previously reported. Out of the 48 fruitset I counted on 7 plants, 25 of them are on the single Mano plant.

Raybo

[Heritage]

Naysen,

I'm getting a good percentage of fruit set in my unheated greenhouse with the nighttime temps rarely over 50F, usually in the 40's.

My guess is the same as Ray's - too much fertilizer. I think you will see fruit set when you stress the plants somewhat. The plant that is setting best for me is one that hasn't been fertilized and is a pale yellow-green color. It is screaming for fert but it is setting ~100%

Good luck!
Steve

[z_willus_d]

Ray, I agree with you. My plants are beautiful, more so than any I've every grown. The problem is they're hollow inside. Like the high-school cheerleader or jock or you pick the cliche. They've got all that glam and glitz on the outside, but when it comes to reproducing babies, they fully flag.

The pH measurement was a non-event. A tad high of what I measured when first I filled the tainers: between 7 and a quarter to 7 and a half.

I might have 8 fruit total. I just hope the ones I have don't start dropping off.

I'll keep hoping for a turn-around.
-naysen

[Heritage]

Also, Naysen, make sure you are shaking the open blossoms daily (around noon is a good time) so they release pollen.

[z_willus_d]

Around noon may be good for the plants, but I'm afraid it doesn't jive well with my career hours. I have tried to get in there at least once often several times a day to shake the cages. I don't think they're dropping for lack of vibration.
-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

When I measured my pH on the EarthTainers outside, with the 3:2:1 mix last year, I got a reading of 6.45. For tomatoes, the ideal (I am told) is 6.5. If indeed your are getting a 7.5 pH reading, then that might be a clue to something.

The only variables I can think of with your Grow Media and mine is that I did not add Worm Castings in the mix. As Heritage says, it is highly unlikely the night-time temps are causing this - so turn off the heater (after the cold wave ends on Wednesday) and let's try to find the real reason for the blossom drop.

Not everyone reads this Thread (guess they don't know what they are missing) so you may want to post a new Thread entitled: "What causes excessive blossom drop?" You should get some comments from others. This is kind of like "CSI Miami" (...without the pretty girls).

Raybo

[z_willus_d]

Hi Ray, thanks for taking an interest in helping me out. I'm surprised you actually are reading a 6.45 pH on your grow medium, given the Perlite and Sunshine #4 combo are rated at neutral. I suppose the wood chips might want to lower the pH but we through in quite a bit of lime, which should have the effect of increasing pH over time. I wonder if you were to measure your Tainers again today if you'd get a higher reading. You thoroughly piqued my interest, so I'm going to get out and measure my castings (same lot that I used in the bins) as well as take additional measurements of my tainers. I think I'll also calibrate that fancy pH meter, so it's within a 100th of a pH accuracy rather than whatever it's at now having gone uncalibrated for about a year.
-naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

The dispersion of your fertilizer will have a material impact on the Grow Media's final pH. Something is wrong if you are getting a 7.5 reading, and your meter is accurate.

I just found this info on the site Everything Tomatoes, for reference:

"""First is PH. Ph is the balance between something being acidic and alkaline. For example water and pure silica sand are neutral, neither acidic nor alkaline. Plants like their soil slightly acidic. Tomatoes as well as most vegetables, flowers and herbs require a PH of between 6.0 and 7.0.
Narrow that down to 6.5 to 6.8 for the ideal tomato soil Ph. If soil isn't in the ideal PH range, there are methods for raising or lowering soil PH."""

Here is an excerpt from another Article I just found:

"""Tomato plants will grow on a lot of different soil types. Those grown on sandy soil tend to mature early; silt, clay, and loam soils tend to be the best. The question remains, however: what is the optimum tomato soil pH level?Tomato plants favor a neutral to slightly acidic soil. A pH range of between 6.0 and 6.5 is considered ideal.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/3919811


Raybo

[z_willus_d]

Ray, you were right to suspect those mid seven pH readings. I re-calibrated the expensive meter using a 7.01 (@temp) buffer solution and found it was about .35 pH high. My cheapo meter was proven to be off by ~.50 pH (at least when measuring the stable buffer solution).

So, I took a closer look and remeasured the six InnTainers, and this revealed that they are all in a pH range of 5.58 to 6.56, making them a tad acidic if anything.

My tap is still coming in high at 8.40.

Of course, in the process of taking all of these measurements, I discovered two half dropped blossoms. I gave them hand to an earlier demise than gravity would have afforded them.

Thanks,
Naysen

[rnewste]

Naysen,

Your (expensive) pH meter which can presumably measure to an accuracy of .01 pH is showing a full 1.0 pH delta between the 6 InnTainers.

5.58 pH is way to acidic for vegetables especially tomatoes, so something else is going on. Did you ever stick the meter in the sack of Worm Castings to see what it reads??

Raybo

[z_willus_d]

Ray, I measured the pH of my castings a while back and in general I found this.

Early in the composting cycle, the pH of "stuff" was HIGH of neutral (pics2/3).
The finished product was around neutral (pic1).
The leachate fluid is also quite alkaline (or at least low acidity).
I often add coffee grinds to my finished worm castings product to give the worms that I harvest with the castings something to chew on until I find a more permanent home for them. Coffee grinds are acidic as pic5 clearly shows. So, it's possible I might have hit some fresh coffee grinds in a few of my measurements, or the grinds could simply be affecting the general pH. I double checked the fancy meter a few times in between measurements of the Tainers, and it was always with .10 pH of the 7.1 (actually 7.03-7.05 @temp) buffer solution.

So, I guess further analysis is warranted. I thought tomatoes could tolerate pH down into the 5's without too much trouble. Hopefully, some of that lime starts to kick-in soon.

Thanks,
Naysen

[rnewste]

Weekly Update: Jan 21. No big surprises this week - things continue to develop with some of the plants showing no upward growth (Sophie's Choice, Victorian Dwarf), while others have added 4 to 6 inches:



Stakeless (front left) has now set 2 fruit:



Mountain Princess has broken through the top shelf of the rack:



The top producer continues to be Mano:



29 fruitset, as of today:



Demidov is running second with 10 fruitset as of the moment:



Sophie's choice, with about 5 fruitset looks like it will be the first one to blush in a few weeks:



And the Dwarf Project's Rosella Purple and Iditarod Red are developing nicely:



Rosella Purple as added 4 inches to now 22 inches tall while Iditarod Red has gone from 16 inches last week to now 20 inches today.

Raybo