Best grafted tomato varieties?

[beeman]

Originally Posted by b54red

That particular rootstock is resistant to two of the three races of fusarium. Even being resistant is no guarantee that the plants won't eventually come down with it if there is heavy infestation in the soil. Bill

So, are you suggesting that these hybrid rootstocks could be a waste of time?
Surely that's the whole idea of grafting, to avoid sprays and soil borne disease. Are these sellers giving us the snake oil treatment again? If so I'll bail now rather than later.

[z_willus_d]

Bill failed to mention that besides the Fusarium/etc. nematode resistance, the rootstock are also selected for other nice qualities, like vigor. So you'll get a stronger healthier plant from a grafted, all things being equal. We believe that a healthy plant will be better able to deal with the onslaught of various foliar diseases and other pressures. It might be able to out grow or keep pace with the problem, or the "immune response" might just be enough to overcome it where on a less hardy scion it might not. Anyway, that's the idea in theory. I'm putting it all to the test in the garden now.

Good luck.
-naysen

[b54red]

Originally Posted by beeman

So, are you suggesting that these hybrid rootstocks could be a waste of time?
Surely that's the whole idea of grafting, to avoid sprays and soil borne disease. Are these sellers giving us the snake oil treatment again? If so I'll bail now rather than later.

I am suggesting no such thing. I am saying that to get production worth the effort out of many of the heirlooms means they need the protection from soil borne problems that the hybrid rootstock will provide. Foliage diseases are another matter and can usually be kept under control with fungicides and good pruning practices.

I would never go to the trouble of grafting just for a bit more vigor but some would. I would just set out more plants. As a matter of fact that is what I have been doing for years with heirlooms in order to have a few plants that produce for me. If I had such a small space to plant in it might be worth it to increase the vigor of a variety by grafting. Down here with our long growing season if your plants don't succumb to a soil borne problem like fusarium and you can keep the insects and foliage diseases under some control then the plants get huge and produce a lot of fruit.

After a few years of gardening in my present location our local county agent dropped by to see my garden at my request. He told me my soil was so infested with fusarium that I would do better to grow something else besides tomatoes; but that if I did want to make any tomatoes I would have to restrict myself to fusarium resistant hybrids. I eventually got bored with growing them and with their sameness so I started growing a lot of heirlooms in search of some that could survive my garden soil. I have found quite a few that will usually produce some fruit before they sicken and die but I want them to produce more and last longer so I am grafting onto resistant rootstock. It is much easier for me to do the grafting than the constant replanting that was required to have a good crop with heirlooms. My health is also making that an impossibility now and without one or two of my sons here to help I really didn't have much choice. I either had to go back to hybrids or find a way for heirlooms to survive longer.

Bill

[aclum]

Hi,

re: Naysen's post #623 (a couple pages back)..... Just wanted to let people know that I've posted some new photos of one of my tomato beds in the photo forum.

Thanks for the kind words on my IS and Vorlon, Naysen <g>. On my tomato count - don't have any cherry tomatoes in the garden per se, but whatever my mystery PL Noir de Crimee REALLY is, it accounts for alot of maters - 30 of the 300+ I mentioned earlier and 43 yesterday. They started out looking like small pear tomatoes, but they've now morphed into good sized plum or paste tomatoes - about 2-1/2" long by 1-1/4" wide. Can't wait to see what color they turn out to be!

I'm really sorry to hear that you're still struggling with your pest problems! I think I may have experienced some of what you've had (but to a much smaller extent) and have more or less stayed on top of things by just cutting off the diseased leaves and occasionally spraying on some Neem on the most affected areas. I've got some respiratory issues so I'm really reluctant to do any major spraying.

Anyway, with your persistence, I have complete faith that you'll "beat the bugs" and start getting alot more fruit with ripening before too long!

Anne

[z_willus_d]

Hi Anne, thanks for the kind words. I'll be searching for your thread directly...looking forward to it.

Bill, I got into grafting for the same reason as you. Last season was a kind of disaster season for me, as all my plants wilted, turned yellow and died starting around this time of year. I got terrible yields for all my work, and I came to believe the problem might be Fusarium. In light of recent observations, I think my issue was more likely a mite infestation, specifically TMRs. I bought the magnifying loupe and examine my plants last year, and didn't find anything. But, honestly, I don't think I knew what to look for or where. I was looking for crab like creatures of some size and on the dead leaf matter, but I think TMR move on to the live juicy stuff long before the leaf is a dead, dessicated mass.

In any case, I don't have relatively unlimited space like you or many others in your areas here in suburbia, so I'm still banking on grafting to help my season by producing stronger, healthier vines more capable of withstanding pests, diseases and other stress vectors. So far, that seems to be proving out in my A-B "trials." Madame Jardell's Black ungrafted and Green Zebra ungrafted are both dropping branches due to some mold/fungus issue whereas their grafted counterparts are not. They're all receiving the same treatment, so go figure. I'm not ready to draw conclusions yet, but I've got my eye on the deltas and my theories armed.

I hope your fusarium abatement continues deep into your season and that you can see a record producing year.
-naysen

[EarthGrownGreens]

In the apple world it is common for folks to graft more than one scion of different variety onto the same rootstock. If that is possible to do with tomato's it would give you a great chance at selecting resistant varieties and performance issues with all things equal. Grafting apples has been enough for me this season but that thought occurred to me and thought I'd throw it out there.

[tlintx]

Originally Posted by EarthGrownGreens

In the apple world it is common for folks to graft more than one scion of different variety onto the same rootstock. If that is possible to do with tomato's it would give you a great chance at selecting resistant varieties and performance issues with all things equal. Grafting apples has been enough for me this season but that thought occurred to me and thought I'd throw it out there.

I wondered about that! Would be a great way to try multiple varieties, like a fruit salad tree. But I wonder if the rapid growth and possible different growth rates of varieties would be an insurmountable issue.

Maybe if you did all hearts, or all cherries....

Tl

[b54red]

I actually have one plant with two different varieties of scions grafted onto one rootstock that has been transplanted into the garden for about a month. One fork has a Donskoi and the other a Fish Lake Oxheart. The Donskoi side has grown faster and is now almost twice as large. Both sides are starting to bloom and I gave the plant plenty of space to allow it to spread good on my trellis. Can't wait to see if either produces as good as the single grafts of the same varieties. I tried doing this with more but one or both grafts failed on all the others; but I am going to try it again with other very similar varieties and a few with very different varieties.

Bill

[clkeiper]

Well, the last root/graft try was a complete failure...again. This is not working for me. I did get a few of the traditional grafts to take, but I am still struggling at it. waaahhhhhh!

[tlintx]

Bill, that's awesome! I look forward to your results!

Would you say the dual scion graft requires as much space as a normal two vine pruned plant? Certainly less than two plants would? And did you graft at the same place or staggered? Any thoughts on this method over planting two varieties in one hole? My main concern is spacing, but your observations on disease are invaluable.


Tl

[Delerium]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

Well, the last root/graft try was a complete failure...again. This is not working for me. I did get a few of the traditional grafts to take, but I am still struggling at it. waaahhhhhh!

Try using the humidity recovery dome for the first few days in shade. During those few days - make sure you open for some fresh air otherwise it slows down the transition phase to full recovery. Are you doing the root/graft in soil or DE that makes a big difference.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by tlintx

Bill, that's awesome! I look forward to your results!

Would you say the dual scion graft requires as much space as a normal two vine pruned plant? Certainly less than two plants would? And did you graft at the same place or staggered? Any thoughts on this method over planting two varieties in one hole? My main concern is spacing, but your observations on disease are invaluable.


Tl

I grafted about the same height on two forks of the rootstock. Maybe the Donskoi side of the graft healed better or faster. I don't think the plant would require any more space than any other plant unless you want to let multiple stems of each develop and that is what I am going to do. Since they are both hearts and somewhat wispy with the foliage I am going to allow 4 stems to develop on each side. I may find that it is too many and have to cut out a couple a bit later but I gave the plant about 8 feet of trellis so there may be plenty of room and the next plants to it are bell peppers so the plants can grow over them on the top of the trellis and provide a little shade. Most varieties with this much space to grow onto would only be allowed a maximum of four stems but ideally three so maybe I'll try grafting three varieties onto one rootstock if I ever see a rootstock plant that looks feasible to try it with.

Bill

[Stvrob]

My Cherokee Purples grafted onto Better Boy rootstocks have been loaded up with lots of very large fruits in the 1 to 1.5 lb range. Also, the Brandywine's on the better boy roots are also loaded up with fruit, though they are not as large as the cherokee purples. They are all pruned to either single stem or two stems and are over six ft high now. I have some ungrafted plants in other parts of the property, and they dont have nearly so much fruit on them. I don't remember brandywine as being particularly prolific, so I am encouraged by the grafting process. The ungrafted plants are not in quite as good a location as the grafted plants, so I cant be certain that the grafting process is responsible.
I have two Opalka's grafted onto supersweet100 roots. One is doing well, but the other is not growing vigourously. The stem above the graft is much larger in diameter than the rootstock stem below the graft, and the plant seems to be stuck at about 3 ft in height. My most vigourous Opalka though is ungrafted and growing in an 18 gal container. (however, I should note, one of the grafted ones actually has larger and more fruit on it than the ungrafted one in the container)

Im a little concerned about the Amish paste's, both grafted and ungrafted. They look kind of wilted usually, even though they seem to be growing well. The grafted ones do have a lot of fruit on them. They are pruned to 2 stems, but Im thinking I should have let more stems grow.

Ive been pruning suckers by pinching the growing tip after two leaves, rather than right at the stem. (a little different than in that video above).

This is the first year Ive grown cherokee purple's, and I must say, they are a big hit with the family. I will be saving plenty of seed for next year.

[b54red]

I'm also seeing the best fruit set I have ever had. Some varieties that rarely produce more than a couple of fruits are setting very well. Surprisingly the two plants with the most number of fruits set are Delicious and Giant Belgium two that have never had many fruit for me. My Brandywine Sudduth's are setting really good. I only have three real slackers one is an Akers West Virginia, which has yet to set a fruit, Gildo Pietroboni which only has one or two along with a Lucky Cross that only has two. I wish now I had kept most of my plants to two stems because the vigorous growth is starting to create a problem. I'm having to go back in and cut whole stems loaded with little greenies in order to open some of the plants up enough to help with air flow. I don't know what I'm going to do with my T-6 which has already reached the top of my 7 ft trellis with no where else to go. There just isn't any room to run the stems back down into the jungle below so I guess some of the stems will start getting topped and the rest will just have to load up the top bar. I hope the 1/2 inch conduit will hold the weight without bending too much. This is such a nice problem to have after the last few years of yanking plants every day that are dying of fusarium many before a single fruit is set. I need to do some heavy duty knocking on wood because if there is one plant in the garden that can shatter your dreams it is the tomato with its host of pests and diseases that can strike so fast.

Bill

[Delerium]

I have a small update to share.

On may 9th just for fun i wanted to try a side graft in water. In 15 days it healed - no humidity dome. I did trim off all the leaves. But there is something interesting that got my attention with this. With the scion most of the time it wilts but what if you just left 1 branch allowing a sucker to grow but cut off the top. This will take off stress from the leaves above. Now i am wondering if all you really need is one branch to encourage a sucker to grow while the graft heals. Figured I'd share this with all of you. I only did 1 graft and it took so that's pretty darn good odds me thinks without all the babying . I know its a pretty ugly looking graft!