Not sure if nutrient problem or disease - leaves - Page 2

mcsprint71 · January 22, 2009

I posted just before I saw your response, Polarface. I agree that there is the odd spot like Septoria leaf spot, but mine rarely start with small circles/spots that then coalesce, rather as yellows that become necrotic in patches (see my 2nd and 3rd images). I'm really grateful for your help.

Polar_Lace · January 22, 2009

Quote:

mcsprint71 wrote: Polarface

Hey I resembled that remark when I lived in Upstate NY! I get frostbite at 40 degrees!

troad · January 22, 2009

mcsprint,

Just trying to get a better picture of your problem. Many others here far more experienced than i am. Have read several times that too much water can be as big a problem as too little. Not knowing how much 40 mm was I asked.
Maybe your plants are fine and I'm "all wet" in asking about the watering. With a little luck maybe one of our more knowledgeable members will take a look too. Ami may be right on and its just normal. Definitely difficult trying to diagnose by comparing pictures. Good luck to you.
Len

mcsprint71 · January 22, 2009

Thanks Len. Yes, it really tricky trying to diagnose by pictures. May be several issues. Need to get some samples under a microscope. I have been looking at different tomato problems for several years now, from Northeast India to Melbourne. The only definitive ones have been bacterial wilt and late blight. Neither of those hang about, they just obliterate. not the worst problem I've had though: that prize goes to monkeys. James

mcsprint71 · January 22, 2009

Sorry about that Polar Lace.

Sherry_AK · January 22, 2009

mcsprint71 -- I have nothing useful to add here, but I agree with Ami. Looks pretty much like normal aging to me. It seems to me like some plants display yellowing leaves more than others each year and at some point they just can't support healthy growth and they turn brown-ish in spots. But that's just my observation.

Anyway, a hearty welcome to Tomatoville! And good luck with your crop.

Sherry

mcsprint71 · January 22, 2009

Thanks Sherry, that is very useful. Last summer I accepted it was part of the process but it just felt a bit premature this year. I love everything about tomatoes including preserving and cooking with them and whilst I grow a broad range of vegies and fruit, I am most fanatical about tomatoes. So I'm glad I've found a website where others appear to do the same.

**Mischka** · January 22, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsprint71

Thanks Sherry, that is very useful. Last summer I accepted it was part of the process but it just felt a bit premature this year. I love everything about tomatoes including preserving and cooking with them and whilst I grow a broad range of vegies and fruit, I am most fanatical about tomatoes. So I'm glad I've found a website where others appear to do the same.

I'd also like to extend a warm welcome to you.

Please make yourself at home and enjoy your time spent here among fellow Tomatovillians.

dice · January 23, 2009

Here is a page on nutrient deficiencies with pictures:

http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=5&id=289

(A lot of them look very similar, so reading the text for
other indicators is recommended, plus it is a generally
informative document.)

Note that it is not always a shortage of the mineral that
the plant sees as deficient that is the problem. It can
also be an oversupply of some other mineral that competes
with what the plant is not getting enough of for chemical
binding sites in the soil or on the roots. The TotalGro (soluble
commercial fertilizer vendor) web site has some information on
this:

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

mcsprint71 · January 24, 2009

Thanks Dice. Some interesting websites there. Mineral balancing is very important but as I am renting the house I live in and I would need to get two separate soil tests done (A$120 each), I can't see the value just yet. I have done this at a farm level using Albrecht type mineral balancing and designed a complete organic soil management program. Would love to do it for the garden, but I'll wait until I own a patch first. Thanks again. James

Polar_Lace · January 24, 2009

James, Get: RAPITEST SOIL TEST KIT, at $16.99 you can't get it any cheaper, I think.....

mcsprint71 · January 25, 2009

Just as important (if not more) is the Calcium:Magnesium ratio. Nitrogen is so unstable that measuring it is not very reliable. thanks again,

dice · January 25, 2009

I was wondering about sulfur: molybdenum (since you use
potassium sulfate, and the symptoms do look a bit like
the molybdenum deficiency pictures). I do not know where
all of the excess sulfur could have come from, though.
Plants do not need much molybdenum, but they do need
a little.

And of course mineral deficiency is not the only possible
cause. But it really looks more like that to me than like
a bacterial/fungal/bug_damage problem. I suppose a plant
tissue test is comparable to the cost of a soil test.

mcsprint71 · January 27, 2009

thanks for that Dice. i write this as we are embarking on a heatwave, that if comes to fruition, will be the hottest in over 100 years i.e. 38c, three days of 40C and then 41C. Full on. I contacted Dept Ag in Melbourne a few days ago about tissue tests and they still haven't replied. Public holiday yesterday so I'll grant them some leniency.

January 22, 2009	#18
troad Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Des Moines, WA. Posts: 358	mcsprint, Just trying to get a better picture of your problem. Many others here far more experienced than i am. Have read several times that too much water can be as big a problem as too little. Not knowing how much 40 mm was I asked. Maybe your plants are fine and I'm "all wet" in asking about the watering. With a little luck maybe one of our more knowledgeable members will take a look too. Ami may be right on and its just normal. Definitely difficult trying to diagnose by comparing pictures. Good luck to you. Len __________________ There's a fine line between gardening and madness.

January 23, 2009	#24
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Here is a page on nutrient deficiencies with pictures: http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=5&id=289 (A lot of them look very similar, so reading the text for other indicators is recommended, plus it is a generally informative document.) Note that it is not always a shortage of the mineral that the plant sees as deficient that is the problem. It can also be an oversupply of some other mineral that competes with what the plant is not getting enough of for chemical binding sites in the soil or on the roots. The TotalGro (soluble commercial fertilizer vendor) web site has some information on this: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; January 25, 2009 at 06:03 AM. Reason: detail

January 24, 2009	#26
Polar_Lace Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Z8b, Texas Posts: 657	James, Get: RAPITEST SOIL TEST KIT, at $16.99 you can't get it any cheaper, I think..... __________________ It's not how many seeds you sow. Nor how many plants you transplant. It's about how many of them can survive your treatment of them.

January 25, 2009	#28
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I was wondering about sulfur: molybdenum (since you use potassium sulfate, and the symptoms do look a bit like the molybdenum deficiency pictures). I do not know where all of the excess sulfur could have come from, though. Plants do not need much molybdenum, but they do need a little. And of course mineral deficiency is not the only possible cause. But it really looks more like that to me than like a bacterial/fungal/bug_damage problem. I suppose a plant tissue test is comparable to the cost of a soil test. __________________ -- alias

January 22, 2009	#16
mcsprint71 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 15	I posted just before I saw your response, Polarface. I agree that there is the odd spot like Septoria leaf spot, but mine rarely start with small circles/spots that then coalesce, rather as yellows that become necrotic in patches (see my 2nd and 3rd images). I'm really grateful for your help.

January 22, 2009	#21
Sherry_AK Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Alaska Zone 3/4 Posts: 1,857	mcsprint71 -- I have nothing useful to add here, but I agree with Ami. Looks pretty much like normal aging to me. It seems to me like some plants display yellowing leaves more than others each year and at some point they just can't support healthy growth and they turn brown-ish in spots. But that's just my observation. Anyway, a hearty welcome to Tomatoville! And good luck with your crop. Sherry

January 27, 2009	#29
mcsprint71 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 15	thanks for that Dice. i write this as we are embarking on a heatwave, that if comes to fruition, will be the hottest in over 100 years i.e. 38c, three days of 40C and then 41C. Full on. I contacted Dept Ag in Melbourne a few days ago about tissue tests and they still haven't replied. Public holiday yesterday so I'll grant them some leniency.