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Old October 8, 2016   #16
Cole_Robbie
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I looked into the organic idea, and my understanding of the OMRI rules was that all plastic must be food safe. That sounds great, but if one is using a mag-drive pump to move water, there is no such thing as a food-safe water pump for hydro. That product does not exist.

If you're not trying to get certified and are thus willing to overlook minor details like that, there are organic nutrients for hydro. They are expensive, of course. It is difficult to refine and filter organic fertilizers into a liquid that will not clog up spray lines, tubing and emitters. It is also much more challenging to avoid pythium and root rot, not impossible, just more challenging, especially in DWC.

The easiest way to grow organic tomatoes inside would be to use a pro-mix type of media that was organic and then add organic fertilizers.
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Old October 9, 2016   #17
zeroma
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Thanks Cole Robbie,

So you are saying organic tomatoes NOT in a hydroponic system?

Not looking to get OMRI certified, just wanted the best information I can find on healthiest plants and if possible, tomatoes.

So DWC would be the most challenging?

Ever since I saw this picture, the idea is still in my head! http://www.treehugger.com/sustainabl...c-hyundai.html

Thanks

Zeroma

Last edited by zeroma; October 9, 2016 at 08:04 AM.
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Old October 9, 2016   #18
Rajun Gardener
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Those look like a step above Micro-Greens. You can do that in 10-20 flats on a shelf, just don't plant as many seeds and let them grow for a few weeks before harvesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZMG6hATT_I
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Old October 9, 2016   #19
Worth1
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I found food grade mag pumps that are plastic on line.
One of the reasons for food grade pumps it to be able to handle boiling fluids.
Who on earth is going to run boiling fluids to their plants.
I find the whole organic certification program lacking in common sense and an organization that hauls in tons of money every year but yet claims to be non profit.
As for a pump for the house I wouldn't worry one bit about whether or not it is food grade to run fertilizer to plants.

The same thing happens with curing/brining meat and fermenting food.
They say dont use metal containers.
This is total BS but they have dumbed the information down so some idiot wont go out and do it in a tin can or galvanized wash tub.

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Old October 9, 2016   #20
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The only food-grade pumps I found were meant for running melted chocolate fountains. The volume was really low on them, far too low for my use.

Non-hydro organic tomatoes would be a lot easier, in my opinion at least, and cheaper too.

Organic hydroponics is really rare. I won't say impossible, but certainly rare. The problem is that organic fertilizers contain organic matter, which feeds bacteria. Hydro systems have a tendency to get over-run with anaerobic pythium bacteria that cause root rot.

Compare the oxygen available to roots growing through a loose pro-mix with peat and perlite, versus submerged in water. In higher oxygen environments, it is harder for the anaerobic bacteria to take over, which is why organic ferts can work so well in potted plants - you're culturing the good bacteria.

There's no real authority on the exact definition of hydroponics. If it just means "without soil," then most container plants would be hydro, because pro-mix and other typical grow media does not contain any actual dirt. Large-scale operations often use perlite or rockwool, and "run-to-waste." That's just watering from the top and letting the waste water drip away, which is really the same as any potted plant. By the same token, I think straw bale gardening is hydro, too, even though we don't call it that. Also, the Earthbox and other sub-irrigated planters could also be termed "wick hydroponics."
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Old October 9, 2016   #21
Worth1
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Cole I saw some in the brewing industry.
Why would a person even want a Mag drive pump I know what they are but why would you want one?
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Old October 9, 2016   #22
Cole_Robbie
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Fish ponds are the most common use. Mag-drive pumps make a lot less heat. As the water temperature rises, it can hold less oxygen, which is bad for either fish or plants.

A common basement sump pump is a much cheaper and more powerful design, but when run constantly, it gets hot. One could certainly use a pump like that in hydro, but it would need to be something like flood and drain, where the pump only runs for a short cycle. A lot of aquaponics setups use flood and drain.

There's a lot of misunderstanding about aeration of hydro reservoirs. People getting started will typically throw a fish tank air pump and bubbler stone into a bucket. We see the bubbles and think that's how the water is getting oxygen. But actually surface tension keeps the air inside the bubble. It doesn't seep out, at least hardly at all. (There are some sewage treatment aerators that use air bubbles, but sewage water tends to have a lot of soap and detergents in it, thus decreasing surface tension.) A hydro bucket bubbler does work, but the aeration comes from the way the bubbles move the water. That's why a water pump is a better aerator than an air pump - water movement is the real key.
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Old October 9, 2016   #23
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Another use for mag drive pumps is for chemicals that absolutely cant be allowed to escape into the environment.
The impeller itself is the same as any other pump from what I have seen.
I have also seen even more complicated pumps in the industry to avoid leaks.
The heating of the water is from cavitation many due to the impeller being ran too fast or the water flowing too fast.
I have seen 1 inch thick valve bodies eaten completely eaten through in just a few months due to this.

Here is a short video explaining the mag drive pump showing how it works.
Pay close attention to how it cools itself with e the fluid it is pumping.
If for any reason these pathways get stopped up the bearings will burn up.
Worth

https://youtu.be/fFXTioC1oJQ
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Old October 9, 2016   #24
zeroma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajun Gardener View Post
Those look like a step above Micro-Greens. You can do that in 10-20 flats on a shelf, just don't plant as many seeds and let them grow for a few weeks before harvesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZMG6hATT_I
Rajun, that would be way more than 2 people could use. LOL I just saw that kitchen set up a few years ago and thought how nice it would be to grow a little in the kitchen. Ebb and Flow or something similar with a very scaled down version of that idea might still be fun.

A lot more work than just have a few pots of herbs on the window ledge. Which I can't do anyway as I have no kitchen window or its ledge! I have just a corner space that is still wanting to be more useful space.

Thanks

Z
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