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Old October 10, 2017   #16
shyxlilfox
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Thanks for clarifying the difference. It's okay, I just read through the FAQ. No need for an explanation.
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Old October 11, 2017   #17
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Thanks for clarifying the difference. It's okay, I just read through the FAQ. No need for an explanation.
Where are the FAQ's at seed savers, I must have missed that and if anyone else asks about it then I'll be able to answer them.

Thanks in advance,

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Old October 11, 2017   #18
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Please note, I use the term, "FAQ," loosely to include the, "About Us," section. It's my shortcut for information. In any event, you can find it here https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/about#seed

If you scroll down, you'll see the following:

Over 13,000 members share homegrown seeds with one another through our seed exchange. The seed exchange is available online and in print to encourage seed savers of all generations to participate. Members from across the world share their seeds, and Seed Savers Exchange offers many varieties from our own extensive collection. In 2015, the exchange featured over 23,000 listings. Anyone can browse the exchange online, but only members can request seeds.

To reach gardeners outside our own membership network, we also publish an annual seed catalog featuring over 600 varieties. Anyone can request a free catalog or shop for seeds. When combined with memberships and donations, seed sales enable us to pursue our mission of preserving and distributing heirloom seeds.

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Old October 11, 2017   #19
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Where was Bill offering them at SSE and I ask since I know him very well and I think he would be listing it in the SSE Annual Yearbook, which is different, Bill has no computer and doesn't want one,and I checked the 2017 Yearbook and he still is listing it.
Carolyn, I just checked the online Exchange listing, and all of Bill Minkey's offerings, both past and present are listed there online along with his contact info. Of course you need to be logged in as a member to see any of that.

Looks to me like the Exchange is now the definitive place to get info on varieties past and present. I expect the print yearbook will be pulled off and printed from the existing online info of only those currently offered. Being in the Yearbook does not preclude being listed online.
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Old October 11, 2017   #20
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Carolyn, I just checked the online Exchange listing, and all of Bill Minkey's offerings, both past and present are listed there online along with his contact info. Of course you need to be logged in as a member to see any of that.

Looks to me like the Exchange is now the definitive place to get info on varieties past and present. I expect the print yearbook will be pulled off and printed from the existing online info of only those currently offered. Being in the Yearbook does not preclude being listed online.
Dee, I still am a member, just not a listed member.

Bill's contact info is public?That really surprises me since I thought you had to click to get that. Is that true for all who participate there?

When Joanne Thuente was doing all of the uploading, folks would tell her where they wanted her to upload ,she's now retired so I don't know how it's done now except that an individual can now upload what they want to and I think also with pictures..

True, being a listed member in the Yearbook has never precluded anyone from listing elsewhere at SSE.

You may find this hard to believe but initially they hired an IT specialist and uploaded the whole darn yearbook, it didn't work, he tried again and this went on for I don't know how long but they finally said it was OK, And only for SSE members.

So I asked Joanne to upload my info to the Yearbook as well as the first new one, and never again.But they made a strong point of saying that no personal contact info would ever be made public.You had to contact SSE and give your acct number to get that info.

The only feedback I've gotten from folks who have posted their wants and what they have, is that quite a few seeds received were crossed.

So really,the exchange is no different,form-wise,from the Tville Wanted and trade seed subforums here as I see it.

Carolyn, who really hopes that SSE is able to increase the membership since in the last few years it has plummeted.That table with data was not included in the 2017 Yearbook,but I'm pretty sure it was last year and the year before it if I took the time to look. SSE has been a very important part of my life since 1989 and I've made so many wonderful friends there and most are still friends, some of them in the seed producer group for seed offers.

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Old October 11, 2017   #21
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Yawn.
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Old October 12, 2017   #22
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Dee, I still am a member, just not a listed member.

Bill's contact info is public?That really surprises me since I thought you had to click to get that. Is that true for all who participate there?
It is public only to those who have joined SSE and are paid members. You have to be logged in with a password in order to see it. So that really is no different than becoming a member in order to see their contact info in your annual print yearbook.

Anyone can search for specific named varieties and see the basic fruit descriptions for them, but if you are not logged in as a member, you can't see any personal names or contact info.

So if you are not a member, all you can see are the name of the variety and the brief description as seen in the print yearbook, and the simple abbreviation of just the state/location of the lister. (Not the entire lister code such as NY MA C)
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Old October 12, 2017   #23
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It is public only to those who have joined SSE and are paid members. You have to be logged in with a password in order to see it. So that really is no different than becoming a member in order to see their contact info in your annual print yearbook.

Anyone can search for specific named varieties and see the basic fruit descriptions for them, but if you are not logged in as a member, you can't see any personal names or contact info.

So if you are not a member, all you can see are the name of the variety and the brief description as seen in the print yearbook, and the simple abbreviation of just the state/location of the lister. (Not the entire lister code such as NY MA C)
If you go back quite a few Yearbooks, here's what I used to list in the New York section as NY MA C.

My home address

My phone number

My e-mail address

as contact info.

But I changed that to eliminate all but m e-mail addy and here's why.

Folks would donate their Yearbooks to local libraries, so anyone could find a person's phone number,home address,etc.which was bad. That never happened to me but did happen to others I know.If I got an e-mail asking for seed I sent back that I don't honor e-mails asking for seeds.

On top of that there was an article from SSE in one of the four magazines saying that many had found out about that and to never post contact info you didn't want to be public.

My em addy is all over the place and has been that way since I've used the same one since 1989, I do have several back up user names but I'm not one who posts at site A with one,and at another site with different one.And I'm darn glad my em is all over the place since that's how I interact with folks in Sweden,Norway,Denmark,France,Germany,Spain, The Czech Republic,Romania, Greece and Israel, and now Lebanon.

Lastly,I think I'm confused since I thought the exchange, at least I was told so,was open to non paid SSE members.It was pointed out to me in the 2017 on the list of new Lifetime members there was a person on that list that was not a paid SSE member.The person asked me to look and see if I knew any others, I did, but I didn't find others I knew.

In the exchange,again, it was pointed out to me that there was at least one person who participated there who was not an SSE member and given the name,yes, I certainly knew that person very well./

One time I was asked for my SSE acct number, say what, I didn't know I had one.I was told it was on the label of the plastic wrapped yearbook that was sent tome.I used to throw those in the trash ASAP since who needs to keep torn plastic wrappers,not me.

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Old October 12, 2017   #24
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In the exchange,again, it was pointed out to me that there was at least one person who participated there who was not an SSE member and given the name,yes, I certainly knew that person very well./

One time I was asked for my SSE acct number, say what, I didn't know I had one.I was told it was on the label of the plastic wrapped yearbook that was sent tome.I used to throw those in the trash ASAP since who needs to keep torn plastic wrappers,not me.
I am sure that the Exchange has never been open for seed requests from non-members. The contact information has always been invisible without a password and log-in, so they would have no way to see the name of the person offering.

I'm thinking your info source may have been confusing open access with the current ability of non-members to view and search for varieties, which was not possible for them in the old previous online database now re-done and renamed as the Exchange.

I know you've said in the past you don't intend to look at SSE Exchange online, but you might have some fun if you did, and you would see exactly what non-members can see just by going to the site and fooling around with some searches.
https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/catalog/browse

If you wanted to see what members see, you could try putting in your email in the Sign In/Welcome Back form, and clicking on the forgot password and see if they send you an email that allows you to make a new password. Not sure how your lifetime membership works, as my membership is tied to an annual account. The years I don't renew, I lose access, but my user account number has stayed the same since the beginning and my info stays on file with them. You may have to contact them to get you set up the first time.
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Old October 13, 2017   #25
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I am sure that the Exchange has never been open for seed requests from non-members. The contact information has always been invisible without a password and log-in, so they would have no way to see the name of the person offering.

I'm thinking your info source may have been confusing open access with the current ability of non-members to view and search for varieties, which was not possible for them in the old previous online database now re-done and renamed as the Exchange.

I know you've said in the past you don't intend to look at SSE Exchange online, but you might have some fun if you did, and you would see exactly what non-members can see just by going to the site and fooling around with some searches.
https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/catalog/browse

If you wanted to see what members see, you could try putting in your email in the Sign In/Welcome Back form, and clicking on the forgot password and see if they send you an email that allows you to make a new password. Not sure how your lifetime membership works, as my membership is tied to an annual account. The years I don't renew, I lose access, but my user account number has stayed the same since the beginning and my info stays on file with them. You may have to contact them to get you set up the first time.
I did check out your link and got up to page 15 and said that's enough for now.

Actually it was kind of fun since I knew ASAP who some of the folks were just by looking at the state where they lived. I also saw that quite a few varieties were not describ ed correctly, I also saw that the listings by several who already sell seeds commercially,that was an easy one.

I also saw that a few had just cut and pasted their Yearbook descriptions.

When there are maybe 6 listing the same variety,does one just click on the blue link to the left for maybe the description they like best,my mouse actually changed so I could do that but I didn't do it, and where does one find,as an exchange, as it were,what the person listing a variety also has, if that makes sense. Or is it a one way street just offerings, and the word exchange is really non operative.

My Heritage Magazine came today and they made a big deal out of saying it's the first time that non members could participate in the exchange.

No, I won't list there at all as I said before I have many seed sources in many countries always looking for new ones that are currently unknown to others and I've been quite successful in doing that, but I i sure hope, as I also said before that they are able to attract more members since the SSE members list has plummeted.

When the snow flies I probably will go back to that link since it's fun trying to ID who they are just by the state they are from, which I'm pretty good at,humble though I am.

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Old October 13, 2017   #26
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Glad you enjoyed your time fiddling with the SSExchange.

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I also saw that a few had just cut and pasted their Yearbook descriptions.
I don't have a current print yearbook, so can't compare - but I'm pretty sure that each description is exactly like what that person has used in the print yearbook. If it's different, it would only be because someone has updated their info since it was last printed.

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When there are maybe 6 listing the same variety,does one just click on the blue link to the left for maybe the description they like best
Yes, if you click on the blue link, you get taken to individual record for that person, and you can see how many and which years he has listed that variety and that's all.

But if you were logged in with a password, you would additionally be able to view here the person's name and seed price, and there would be another link for his profile information, and a link for their listings.

The listings are in a chart form, and include everything they have ever listed, in columns with additional information, such as whether currently available, sufficient quantity etc. Very impressive for some long time listers! As an example, Neil Lockhart's chart is 82 pages and 2,032 entries. Just really great historical records, all in one place.

Sure you don't want to get a password?
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Old October 18, 2017   #27
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Glad you enjoyed your time fiddling with the SSExchange.

I don't have a current print yearbook, so can't compare - but I'm pretty sure that each description is exactly like what that person has used in the print yearbook. If it's different, it would only be because someone has updated their info since it was last printed.

Yes, if you click on the blue link, you get taken to individual record for that person, and you can see how many and which years he has listed that variety and that's all.

But if you were logged in with a password, you would additionally be able to view here the person's name and seed price, and there would be another link for his profile information, and a link for their listings.

The listings are in a chart form, and include everything they have ever listed, in columns with additional information, such as whether currently available, sufficient quantity etc. Very impressive for some long time listers! As an example, Neil Lockhart's chart is 82 pages and 2,032 entries. Just really great historical records, all in one place.

Sure you don't want to get a password?
First, in my post above yours I noted that the Heritage magazine I just got said it was the first time that non SSE members could participate..

And in post 10 this was written

(Is that the annual yearbook rather than the exchange? It's not clear on the website that one has to request a variety from the yearbook rather than the exchange. Either way, it's listed on the seedsavers.org website. I wasn't aware that they were separate entities.)

I really missed the boat on this one. Yes,it's the original one that was first put up that I have discussed here as to how many times they tried to get it to work and when sending in my new info and asking for others to be deleted we had the option of listing in just the Yearbook OR the new online one.I did it once ,Joanne T did it for me and once was enough for me for the online one.

So there is no exchange as I know it, I'm offering this,what have you got that I might want. It was named the Exchange b'c that's the name of SSE as in Seed Savers Exchange.

http://seedsavers.org/join

I looked at the site and here's what I saw,this for SSE only,not the exchange

Various categories of membership, no definition,really,of what you get except for paperless

But when I saw the cost for a Lifetime membership,I really gulped,it was $1500. I paid 500 in the early 90's. What's the explanation for that? Expected inflation?

Nowhere could I find what it costs for those in other countries to receive the Yearbook and they do.Last I knew your member allowed you to get the Yearbook if you lived in Mexico or Caanada.

Then I saw that the seed exchange was a community swap,swap to me means I give you this and you give me that in exchange, viz, a trade.

Then I saw it was only for heirloom seeds. In the few pages I read I seem to recall not all were heirloom ones.Dee, for sure you've read many more pages than I did,probably several hundreds and did you see any that were not heirloom ones,as in ones bred by others,etc.

And why so many offering seeds for the same variety?Makes sense since it relates to how many listed a variety in the Yearbook.

In the current 2017 Yearbook there are 18 listing Cherokee Purple, but you won't see that many listings for it in the exchange since not all who list it would chose to participate in the Exchange

There were 9 in the Yearbook who listed Eva Purple Ball, again, I doubt you'll see that many listing in the exchange.

So why would so many list in the exchange,that is current members. If they see something they want to add to their seed stash they could get it,do seed production and list it in the Yearbook where they could and do charge money for those seeds.

Why are they now allowing non members to participate?That's also an easy one for me,but I have to explain first.

You won't find this chart in the 2017 Yearbook but it's in the 2016 one and all others prior to 2016.

There were 710 Listed members in 2015, but in 2014 there were only 598,that's a huge drop

I think they are hoping that the non members,some of them anyway,will decide to join and become,hopefully listed members. Just my opinion.

So what I see is that the only ones participating that will do just fine are those who are large listers of varieties in the Yeabook and those would include just to name a few

Neil Lockhart in IL

Al Andson in OH

Bill Minkey in WI

Dale Thurber in Utah

If it were a different year,perhaps Tania

Maybe even Andrey in Belarus who used to list a lot in the Yearbook as well.

Ilex, aka Paco in Spain always has lots of listings

I know I'm forgetting some, but whatever.

And when I look at the new Excutive Director who is replacing Torgimson,I see his background is primarily in advertising.

So what happend to the original mission of SSE and the Yearbooks,which was seed preservation, it's gone since IMO the yearbook has become just another seed catalog for many, especially the catalog they send out each Fall that anyone can buy seeds from.

I'm glad I got out when the getting was good,as a listed member,and that as I posted here somewhere when two of the men I talked to when I wanted all my listing to be deleted, asked if I would donate all my seeds to SSE and I said I'd think about it just to be polite.

And said nothing about Tville and the many countries I i source seeds from and what wonderful friends I've made in all of those countries.

Lastly, listings in the Yearbooks change every year,folks run out of seeds,sickness, just don't want to list again. etc. So nothing in the Yearbooks is static, it changes all the time.

And that will obviously be true of the old but now newer version of the exchange as well.

Carolyn



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Old October 19, 2017   #28
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Carolyn, I think you are taking too broadly the term participate for non-members when it come to the Exchange. I read the Heritage Harvest edition online pdf version, and what you are talking about was on page 23 under Changes to the Exchange. In the third paragraph they say is they are "… opening the Exchange to non-members. " They continue … "While this is a break from tradition, it is our hope to welcome in more people so that seed stewardship does not become a bygone practice."

By opening the exchange, they only mean opening the viewing of the available seed information, because in the old online version of the yearbook, non-members could not view it. I agree that it is a move to attract new members, and a logical one for them.
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Then I saw that the seed exchange was a community swap,swap to me means I give you this and you give me that in exchange, viz, a trade.
No, you pay the lister for seeds just like the yearbook, because the online Exchange is the same as the Yearbook -- just in a more complete, current and fluctuating state.

The most concise info on using the SSExchange is at their Getting Started page https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/about

I have lifted quotes that answer two points you questioned -

"Anyone can browse the Seed Exchange, but you must have an Exchange account to request or list seeds." (and to get an account you have to pay to become a member!)

Quote:
Then I saw it was only for heirloom seeds. In the few pages I read I seem to recall not all were heirloom ones.Dee, for sure you've read many more pages than I did,probably several hundreds and did you see any that were not heirloom ones,as in ones bred by others,etc.
From the Getting Started link above :

"Seed Exchange community members offer thousands of homegrown, heirloom and open-pollinated seeds to other Exchange members. Homegrown simply means the seeds were not grown by a commercial operation. We define "heirloom" as a seed that has been passed down from generation to generation within communities and families.
All of the seeds offered by our members are open-pollinated and non-hybrid "


Just out of curiosity I did a quick search for some recently popular OP tomatoes - Rebel Yell had one entry. I did not find anything for Girl Girl's Weird Thing. I bet it will be there soon.


Quote:
In the current 2017 Yearbook there are 18 listing Cherokee Purple, but you won't see that many listings for it in the exchange since not all who list it would chose to participate in the Exchange

There were 9 in the Yearbook who listed Eva Purple Ball, again, I doubt you'll see that many listing in the exchange.
As far as numbers of listers of varieties, the Exchange has more than the numbers you mentioned in the current yearbook. If you use their SSE website search box and type in Cherokee Purple, you get 27 entries (the last two in the list are actually Cherokee Purple Heart and Cherokee Purple, Potato Leaf.)

When you do a search for Eva Purple Ball, you get 11 entities.
This is to be expected as people add listings from the current growing season, and maybe there will be some that drop their listings to bring the numbers down by the time the next yearbook is printed. As I said above, the online Exchange is the same as the Yearbook -- just in a more complete, current and fluctuating state.
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