(screaming like a little girl) ARRRRRRR I almost stepped on a rattler tonight!

[desertlzbn]

It was a small one, about 1.5 ft long, about the size of a sharpie around, and scared the holy cr*p ola out of me. I was going out the gate to go to the neighbors house, and my wife had just said "why don't we drive since it is snake time"? I said oh no it'll be ok, lets just walk. WELL I guess I will have to hear about how I should have listened to her for a while now, since she was right!
Anyway I did not kill it (but I really wanted to) I called my neighbor and he came over and "wrangled it" and is going to take it to the wash tomorrow.
I KNOW we should not kill the rattle snake, but danged it, they scare the crap out of me.
I don't mind the other, non poisonous snakes, but rattlers I do not like.
Whew!

[ireilly]

Baby snakes are often more poisonous than the adults, drop for drop, to help them defend themselves. Not sure about specific breeds though.

As humans we are wired to respect them, in most people's experience.

Glad you avoided harm.

[tjg911]

rattlesnakes are extremely venomous. i had no idea just how deadly rattlers are until about a year or two ago. i associated them with copperheads and water moccasins and coral snakes, you don't want to get bite but it's not like you were bitten by a mamba or cobra.

coral snakes have a neuro toxin but their teeth are in the back of their mouths and very short. both of these limit the danger tho it is a dangerous snake. coral snakes are rather shy and will avoid people.

moccasins are probably more dangerous than copperheads, both have hemo toxic venom. better to not be bitten but the copperhead is the lesser of the 2 evils.

rattlesnakes have long fangs and they inject venom deep and a lot of it. it is a hemo toxic venom. rattlers are a very aggressive and powerful snake. i'm not a herpotologist but i'm sure they are the most dangerous and deadly of the 4 venomous snakes in the us. there are many different rattlesnakes but there are types in the southwest that are more deadly than here in the northeast. a rattlesnake bite is a very serious and life threatening event.

as mentioned, a baby is often more dangerous than an adult for the reason stated. also an adult may meter the venom used where a juvenile may not know to do that.

venomous snakes often do a "dry bite". this is where they bite you but do not inject venom. i have read this is 20% of the time but i'm not sure if rattlers can be trusted to adhere to that, it might apply to the other 3 more so. a dry bite is for protection because they can't eat you therefore they don't want to use/waste venom on you. you can't tell a dry bite from a real on until the problems start which may be relatively short like 10 minutes? not sure about that but all bites should be considered a real bite.

never saw a rattler and they are not common here anymore but they are in this state. i tolerate snakes but a venomous one would really worry me especially for my dog tho craig has said and i believe him that dogs are immune to copperhead bites. a rattler would have to be dispatched but a gun is the safest way to do it, a 20 guage would be perfect at about 10'. more people are bitten trying to kill a snake than any other way.

[desertlzbn]

Well I try to avoid them at all costs, but out here in the desert sometimes it is hard to.

[KLorentz]

Originally Posted by desertlzbn

It was a small one, about 1.5 ft long, about the size of a sharpie around, and scared the holy cr*p ola out of me. I was going out the gate to go to the neighbors house, and my wife had just said "why don't we drive since it is snake time"? I said oh no it'll be ok, lets just walk. WELL I guess I will have to hear about how I should have listened to her for a while now, since she was right!
Anyway I did not kill it (but I really wanted to) I called my neighbor and he came over and "wrangled it" and is going to take it to the wash tomorrow.
I KNOW we should not kill the rattle snake, but danged it, they scare the crap out of me.
I don't mind the other, non poisonous snakes, but rattlers I do not like.
Whew!

Been there done that in Cali.A full adult Pacific Rattler.Gave no warning too.And yes it was on the boarder of the garden.


Kevin

[Stepheninky]

If you live in the country a hog is the best thing for getting rid of snakes. They will trample them and eat them. They have enough fat that the snake bite does not bother them.

When we lived on the farm they kept the snake population down.

[b54red]

A hog will do the same thing to your garden that they do to a snake.

[ContainerTed]

Agree with tjg911 with this exception.

While stationed at Edwards AFB near Palmdale, CA, and again at Nellis AFB in Las Vegas, NV, I was aware of a variety of Rattler the locals called "the Mojave Green". The local tire repair shops would not fix a tire if you had run over one. Apparently the Mojave Green is unique in that it has both types of toxins in its venom.

Now, Tucson is in the Sonora Desert but it's not that far south of the Mojave Desert. I would treat all of those "Joe No-shoulders" critters with a lot of respect.

Around here in NE Tennessee, if you want to clear snakes out of the woodpile, you put a few moth balls in and around the area to be cleared. Snakes hunt with their tongues and anything super pungent (like moth balls) will prevent them from "sniffing out" their prey. If they can't hunt, they leave.

'Course, you have to smell the moth balls, too.

All I know, is that it works.

Ted

[tjg911]

ted is right, you learn something every day. at 1st i thought a snake doesn't have both types of venom, i never heard of such a thing. so i googled this and sure enough -

The Mojave rattlesnake, better known as the "Mojave Green," has a fearsome and well-deserved reputation. Considered more aggressive than other species of rattlesnakes, the Mojave Green's appearance is similar to that of his kin - flat, triangular head, heavy scales, a thick body with a diamond camouflage pattern and rattles on the tail. The nickname comes as a result of the species commonly having a greenish tint, in contrast to the normal brown or yellow color of other rattlesnakes.

The Mojave Green is considered the most dangerous of the various species of rattlesnakes due to the lethality of its poison. Snake venom is of two types. The first is hemotoxin, which destroys blood cells and tissue to help the snake predigest its prey. The other, that of the Mojave Green, is neurotoxin, which destroys nerves and nerve tissue; this paralyzes the snake's prey and prevents its escape. In a high enough dose, neurotoxin can stop the breathing process. As a result, anyone bitten by a Mojave Green needs medical attention, as one person noted, "pretty gosh darnoodley quick." (the word was dam with an N at the end)

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/n...ppl_green.html

tom

[tjg911]

btw in case people are getting freaked out there is a simple way to id a venomous snake in AMERICA. all snakes with a triangular shaped head in the united states are venomous with the exception of the coral snake. to add to the difficulty of iding a coral snake there is a snake that looks exactly the same except the coloration bands are reversed.

Coral snakes are most notable for their red, yellow/white, and black colored banding. (However, several nonvenomous species have similar coloration, including the scarlet snake, genus Cemophora, some of the kingsnakes and milk snakes, genus Lampropeltis, and the shovelnose snakes, genus Chionactis.) In some regions, the order of the bands distinguishes between the non-venomous mimics and the venomous coral snakes, inspiring some folk rhymes — "Red on yellow, kill a fellow; "Red on black, friend of Jack"; and "Red into black, venom lack; red into yellow, kill a fellow." However, this reliably applies only to coral snakes native to North America: Micrurus fulvius (Eastern or common coral snake), Micrurus tener (Texas coral snake), and Micruroides euryxanthus (Arizona coral snake), found in the southern and western United States. Coral snakes found in other parts of the world can have distinctly different patterns, have red bands touching black bands, have only pink and blue banding, or have no banding at all.


good luck trying to remember this limerick if bitten!

tom

[Colorado_west]

I have only met up with one rattler and it heard us and took off. Over in Utah going rock hunting and had just got out of the car and locked. Like 3 foot or so. Just a few garden snakes here. At my cabin 4 foot or so bull snakes. Chief of police brought in jar and red, yellow and black snake to see the snake book to be sure which kind. We do not have those here but a kid found a live one. Got her some way.

[lowlylowlycook]

Originally Posted by tjg911

ted is right, you learn something every day. at 1st i thought a snake doesn't have both types of venom, i never heard of such a thing. so i googled this and sure enough -

The Mojave rattlesnake, better known as the "Mojave Green," has a fearsome and well-deserved reputation. Considered more aggressive than other species of rattlesnakes, the Mojave Green's appearance is similar to that of his kin - flat, triangular head, heavy scales, a thick body with a diamond camouflage pattern and rattles on the tail. The nickname comes as a result of the species commonly having a greenish tint, in contrast to the normal brown or yellow color of other rattlesnakes.

The Mojave Green is considered the most dangerous of the various species of rattlesnakes due to the lethality of its poison. Snake venom is of two types. The first is hemotoxin, which destroys blood cells and tissue to help the snake predigest its prey. The other, that of the Mojave Green, is neurotoxin, which destroys nerves and nerve tissue; this paralyzes the snake's prey and prevents its escape. In a high enough dose, neurotoxin can stop the breathing process. As a result, anyone bitten by a Mojave Green needs medical attention, as one person noted, "pretty gosh darnoodley quick." (the word was dam with an N at the end)

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/n...ppl_green.html

tom

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that says that the Mojave Green has neurotoxin, not both kinds.

[desertlzbn]

I was talking to the snake guy here at work (i work for the Natural Rescources, parks and rec dept) and he said that most rattlers are docile and are more scared of you. Bites occure when people step on them, our try to handle them, our trying to kill them. The best bet is to leave them alone. At least they have anti venom now. I will make sure to carry a flashlight or wear a headlamp when I go outside.

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by lowlylowlycook

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that says that the Mojave Green has neurotoxin, not both kinds.

Here's a quote from a website that you can find with Bing.

General Comments: This is probably the most dangerous snake in North America. It is aggressive, fairly large-bodied, and has a complex venom composed of hemolytic and neurotoxic elements. It is responsible for several deaths each year, including in recent years a prominent snake toxin expert. This snake should be avoided.

Ted

[tjg911]

well the site i quoted i read fast and misread it thinking that it said this snake has both hemo and neuro but upon reading it carefully it sates neuro. then this 2nd site clearly states both.

i never heard of this snake but like i said there are many different rattlers in the southwest and mexico. i never heard of a snake having both types of venom, i suppose it is possible but you know there's a lot of stuff on the internet and you have to wonder about the accuracy. i always thought all rattlers had hemotoxic venom.

i'm going to look for a site that sounds like it has some credibility to see if it discusses this snake....

not a lot of luck. some say it is a neurotoxin, some say a combination of both. apparently it is really a very dangerous snake with a very toxic venom!

from wikiepidia about the mojave green rattlesnake -

Rattlesnake venoms are complex cocktails of enzymes and other proteins that vary greatly in composition and effects, not only between species, but also between geographic populations within the same species. C. scutulatus is widely regarded as producing one of the most toxic snake venoms in the New World, based on LD50 studies in laboratory mice.[11] Their potent venom is the result of a presynaptic neurotoxin composed of two distinct peptide subunits.[12] The basic subunit (a phospholipase A2) is mildly toxic and apparently rather common in North American rattlesnake venoms.[13] The less common acidic subunit is not toxic by itself but, in combination with the basic subunit, produces the potent neurotoxin called “Mojave toxin.” Nearly identical neurotoxins have been discovered in five North American rattlesnake species besides C. scutulatus.[13] However, not all populations express both subunits. The venom of many Mojave rattlesnakes from south-central Arizona lacks the acidic subunit and has been designated “Venom B,” while Mojave rattlesnakes tested from all other areas express both subunits and have been designated “Venom A” populations.[14] Based on median LD50 values in lab mice, Venom A bite from Mojave rattlesnakes is more than ten times as toxic as Venom B, which lacks Mojave toxin.[15]


so i don't know for sure but 1 thing for sure keep away from this one!