Pea strategies - Page 2

janezee · February 8, 2012

Holeymoley, Jeannine, I've never heard of 3/4 of those. You do get yourself into the most interesting projects!!!

j

Zeedman · February 8, 2012

Jeannine, that's an impressive list. I'll have to look some of those up. I suspect that two of your varieties might be the same pea under different names; the a.k.a. for "Tall Telephone" (or "Telephone Improved") is "Alderman". Kath mentioned this also, in listing the a.k.a..

My experience agrees with that of Petronius. Peas will take a little shade, especially if it is afternoon shade. While it will probably reduce the yield to some degree, it also cuts down on the heat, which might keep the vines going a little longer.

Spacing really depends upon variety, and can vary widely. I've grown "Novella" and a similar afila pea, "Mesa". They have short vines with huge numbers of tendrils, and you can - and should - plant them very closely. The tendrils interlock & the vines support each other, forming one huge "bush". I use roughly 2" between seeds, in rows 6" apart. These are great varieties for broadcasting in wide rows. The peas are small, but very sweet.

I did a shelling pea trial about 15 years ago, but wasn't keeping a garden journal back then, so can't remember all of the names. The only varieties which left an impression on me were "Green Arrow" and "Telegraph". I'm surprised to read the poor results others have had with "Green Arrow"; my double row was really loaded, and I liked the number of peas in the long pods. Good sized peas with good flavor, although not as sweet as the afila peas. They were planted in double rows 12" apart, and formed one wide row at full growth. "Telephone" was on a trellis of hand-tied twine between two poles, and got so heavy with pods that it broke the string! The peas are very large & easy to shell, but they got starchy faster than the others, so I had to make a point of picking them young. The skin of the pea, as I recall, was fairly thick too... so I used them in stew, and they held up nicely.

Overall, though, I was disappointed in the yield per area, and shelling large quantities can really be a chore, especially with small-podded varieties. My wife & daughters helped me the year of the trial, and we froze about 20 pints from all the varieties combined (mostly "Green Arrow"). I've only grown shelling peas occasionally since; I prefer to grow shelling beans & edamame soybeans instead.

For those who find peas difficult because of early summer heat, I heartily recommend edamame soybeans. They can be just as sweet, bear more heavily, and are really easy to shell... just cook lightly, cool, and squeeze the pods to pop them out. If peas were that simple to shell, I might grow more of them.

I too grow "Sugar Lace II" as a snap pea, and am very happy with the flavor & the large pods. My only complaint would be that they seem to need soil warmer than most peas for good germination. My late Summer planting always comes up better (and yields better) than my Spring planting. This variety might benefit from being covered with plastic in the Spring.

Snow peas only do well here for a short time, so I don't grow too many, just enough for a couple Spring stir fries. "Limestone" puts up with the (Wisconsin) heat fairly well, better than anything else I've tried. "Sandy" is less heat tolerant, and sets pods in 3's... but in my less than ideal climate, these need to be picked small for best flavor.

I'm working on "Purple Pod Parsley", an unusual shelling pea developed by Alan Kapular. It has clusters of tiny leaflets in place of the tendrils... hence the "parsley". The pods are purple, although I'm still trying to stabilize the color, since I get a few green-podded or purple & green podded plants. The peas are fairly large, and some of the plants show promising yield. If I can stabilize the color, I'll begin selecting for flavor & yield.

Jeanine, one of the parents for PPP is your variety "Parsley", which has the same parsley-like leaves, but all-green pods. There is also a purple-podded snap pea with "Parsley" in its lineage, which I hope to grow this year.

Most of the peas I grow now are heirloom soup peas, which I grow mainly for preservation. I've adopted the varieties "Bill Jump", "Cera Sierra", "Golderbse", Gruno Rosyn", "Nadja", "Prebohaty", Rimpaus Green Victoria", and "Vantana Matar". Unfortunately, since I grow these mainly for seed to exchange, I seldom grow enough of any one of them to make a good pot of soup - except for a small batch of "Golderbse".

Quote:

...I guess it's time to put up that fence. I've been bugging my husband to help me put one up since last summer, when a groundhog showed up one night and ate every single one of my tomatoes...

I've had a lot of problems with groundhogs over the years. A fence will discourage them; but if they know there's something that they want in the garden, they WILL get in. If they've raided your garden previously, then they've learned to feed there. Chances are you'll have to trap it (or them) or kill it.

Oh, and there is one more pest you might have to deal with - blackbirds. They discovered my "Green Arrow" peas just before they were ready, and a whole flock of them began pecking the pods open. I had to cover the row with Agribon to protect the peas until they were ready.

Pardon the long post... hope it provided something useful.

janezee · February 9, 2012

So far, for me, the bunnies have been more interested in my clover lawn than my garden. I spray the wood of my raised beds with my own mixture. I take a habanero or two, some cloves of garlic, a really big piece of ginger, and put them in the blender/processor with white vinegar. Pulverize it, let it sit overnight or longer, but not until it gets moldy, and strain though a coffee filter into your sprayer.
If you need it stronger, say, on your plants, use water instead of vinegar. I've not used it that way, because just spraying the wood works for me. The slugs don't like it, either. Or the cats, dogs, deer, and who knows what else is out there?

For the birds, I use mylar streamers from the party store. It comes in a large roll that lasts forever. Maybe 500 feet?
I tie it to the top of my 8 foot fence posts in 6 foot lengths. The slightest breeze moves it, and the birds are very unhappy with that.

I fed 24 quail daily during the first winter I spent on Cape Cod. I loved to watch them scurry out of the woods, eat, and disappear. In March, when my peas, a few hundred feet away, came up, they'd get 2-3" tall, then they'd be 1/2" tall. Then, they'd get 2-3" tall, then they'd be 1/2" tall. And again!
Those lovely quail got tired of dried seeds, just like I did, and I had to cover the peas for a couple of weeks, until they were no longer on little bird brains. lol
I got plenty of peas, and a lesson in country living.

Zeedman · February 9, 2012

Wow... you moved from Cape Cod to Whidbey? You must like it cool. ;-) I lived in Oak Harbor in the 70's. Really good weather for peas, challenging weather for beans & heat loving crops. It's one of the few places that make Wisconsin look balmy in the Summer. Got all the land that I need here... but I miss the mountains.

loeb · February 9, 2012

Peas..

I grow them too, and I wish to do some breeding this year.. I'm mostly interested in snow peas and snap peas, but maybe some soups will be planted too. Now I have Golden Sweet, Kelvedon Wonder, Blauwschokker, Oregon Sugar Pod2, and a giant snow pea of unknown origin [received as a "pea from Oak island"], and I can't wait spring

janezee · February 9, 2012

Z, I like to be near the water, but not too crowded, and definitely cool. I got on I-90 one day when it was -10F, and just drove to the other side. I don't like to freeze!

It's a good thing that my favorite crops do really well here, except for the tomatoes and peppers. I could live on peas, asparagus, raspberries, and Dungeness crab, with a little good bread and tomatoes thrown in. Walla Walla isn't so far away that I can't be called a locovore, too. I get up every morning and think, "Another perfect day in paradise."
It is difficult to have to wear your winter jacket to the fireworks in July, though.

Were you in the military in Oak Harbor?

janezee · February 9, 2012

loeb, has that big freeze hit you? I just saw it today. Brutal!

ScottinAtlanta · February 9, 2012

Innoculation? Sorry for the silly question, but what is that?

OneDahlia · February 9, 2012

So much great information here! Going to be referring back to this thread often. Thanks!

Zeedman, the groundhog has a new home in the woods.

loeb · February 9, 2012

janezee, I'm in Poland

and I never was in a military

And freezes are medium here, -10*C this night.. -20*C last week was harder

OneDahlia, nice cage.. my strawberries are eaten by my cat:/ He loves that vegetable gourmet dishes : strawberries, tomato gel, some greens..:} I wonder how will he react to snow peas:}

kath · February 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeedman

I did a shelling pea trial about 15 years ago, but wasn't keeping a garden journal back then, so can't remember all of the names. The only varieties which left an impression on me were "Green Arrow" and "Telegraph". I'm surprised to read the poor results others have had with "Green Arrow"; my double row was really loaded, and I liked the number of peas in the long pods. Good sized peas with good flavor, although not as sweet as the afila peas.

I too grow "Sugar Lace II" as a snap pea, and am very happy with the flavor & the large pods. My only complaint would be that they seem to need soil warmer than most peas for good germination. My late Summer planting always comes up better (and yields better) than my Spring planting. This variety might benefit from being covered with plastic in the Spring.

Pardon the long post... hope it provided something useful.

I must say that out of last year's trial, Green Arrow didn't give us poor results- it was the best of all the ones we tried that year because the production was good but it was the lack of sweetness that was its downfall for us.

Given your observations about Sugar Lace II, I'll definitely try a fall planting this year.

Your post was certainly useful for me- thanks!

FarmerShawn · February 9, 2012

For fresh shelling peas, I always grow Lincoln, because they just seem to freeze the best. I have lately been growing Coral, because they come in so darned early, and I keep switching around for my third choice (a late pea) searching for one that will withstand the mildew that always hits and signals (causes) the end of the pea season.
I've tried a couple of the sugar snap variations, but have settled on the original, Sugar Snap, as the tastiest and most reliable. But they don't freeze all that well, to our taste, so we eat and share them fresh. Most never made it out of the garden, before I started taking them to market. They do sell well. They also need a tall and strong trellis.
With the Lincolns and other shelling peas, I always pick a bunch late afternoon or evening, and we spend the after-supper time sitting in front of the TV with big bowls in our laps and buckets for the pods beside us. After they are all shelled, it only takes a couple of minutes to blanch and freeze them, and they are our favorite veggie this time of year.

Petronius_II · February 9, 2012

"Innoculation? Sorry for the silly question, but what is that?"

The short answer to that question is, something you may really need, but probably don't.

The long version goes like this:

Inoculating, as used here, is coating the seed with a wee bit of beneficial bacteria, or adding it to the planting hole. Or maybe digging it into the soil later on.

Ideally, the roots of all plants have a symbiotic relationship with soil bacteria. The mycorrhizae that you may have heard about can partner up with a wide variety of crops, not just legumes. The bacteria digest various elements out of the soil and pass it on, in a more soluble form, to the roots of the plants.

(Don't ask me what good the bacteria get out of the deal; I'm more of a science writer than a scientist, so I'm often writing about things I understand rather imperfectly myself. Long story short, I'm sure the bacteria have their reasons, ya know?)

So that's why mycorrhizae are a hot item among cutting-edge gardeners these days. Depending on which species of bacteria and which species of plant, they can supply e.g. phosphorus, maybe a little manganese here and there... Good finished compost, by the time it's applied to the soil, is loaded with too many different species of bacteria to count.

However, the one element most bacteria/plant partnerships come up short on, is nitrogen, one of the most essential elements of all. No nitrogen, no protein. No protein, no growth. Mycorrhizae can often get it out of the soil, but what if the soil is scanty in nitrogen to begin with? It may become an "all the king's horses and all the king's men" kind of situation.

And that's why legumes are so special. Peas, beans, clover, alfalfa, carob and locust trees... They all have long established relationships, rather like a "joint business venture" in human affairs, with one or more kinds of bacteria. And these legume partners don't depend on taking nitrogen out of the soil. They can take it right out of the air.

I think you can figure where scientific discoveries like this could lead. In the case of legume-friendly bacteria, this stuff has been known for many years, leading to products like this:

http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=4400

and these:

https://www.superseeds.com/products....arch=inoculant

...But if you have reasonably good soil and/or supplement it with good compost, you probably don't really need it.

It tends to be a rather pricey item. Farmers really kind of need it, because if they're not using it to get that extra 10 or 20 or 30 percent out of their crop, their competitors in the next county are. For home gardeners, it depends on how big your wallet is, how good or bad your soil is, how adamant you are about wanting to get mucho mucho mucho beans and peas out of your small space... You get the picture.

ScottinAtlanta · February 9, 2012

WoW! That is crystal clear - thank you. I suppose if I get my soil tested, it will tell me if I need the inoculant.

Isn't there another Petronius - and you are Petronius II. Related?

Petronius_II · February 9, 2012

On Tomatoville? Don't ask me. Not that I know of.

I chose my most frequent pen name years ago out of admiration for the movie "Fellini-Satyricon," and a long series of intellectual pursuits stemming from that admiration... I almost feel like I knew the author of the original novel, from the time of Nero.

February 8, 2012	#16
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	Holeymoley, Jeannine, I've never heard of 3/4 of those. You do get yourself into the most interesting projects!!! j

February 9, 2012	#18
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	So far, for me, the bunnies have been more interested in my clover lawn than my garden. I spray the wood of my raised beds with my own mixture. I take a habanero or two, some cloves of garlic, a really big piece of ginger, and put them in the blender/processor with white vinegar. Pulverize it, let it sit overnight or longer, but not until it gets moldy, and strain though a coffee filter into your sprayer. If you need it stronger, say, on your plants, use water instead of vinegar. I've not used it that way, because just spraying the wood works for me. The slugs don't like it, either. Or the cats, dogs, deer, and who knows what else is out there? For the birds, I use mylar streamers from the party store. It comes in a large roll that lasts forever. Maybe 500 feet? I tie it to the top of my 8 foot fence posts in 6 foot lengths. The slightest breeze moves it, and the birds are very unhappy with that. I fed 24 quail daily during the first winter I spent on Cape Cod. I loved to watch them scurry out of the woods, eat, and disappear. In March, when my peas, a few hundred feet away, came up, they'd get 2-3" tall, then they'd be 1/2" tall. Then, they'd get 2-3" tall, then they'd be 1/2" tall. And again! Those lovely quail got tired of dried seeds, just like I did, and I had to cover the peas for a couple of weeks, until they were no longer on little bird brains. lol I got plenty of peas, and a lesson in country living.

February 9, 2012	#19
Zeedman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 313	Wow... you moved from Cape Cod to Whidbey? You must like it cool. ;-) I lived in Oak Harbor in the 70's. Really good weather for peas, challenging weather for beans & heat loving crops. It's one of the few places that make Wisconsin look balmy in the Summer. Got all the land that I need here... but I miss the mountains.

February 9, 2012	#20
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	Peas.. I grow them too, and I wish to do some breeding this year.. I'm mostly interested in snow peas and snap peas, but maybe some soups will be planted too. Now I have Golden Sweet, Kelvedon Wonder, Blauwschokker, Oregon Sugar Pod2, and a giant snow pea of unknown origin [received as a "pea from Oak island"], and I can't wait spring

February 9, 2012	#23
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	Innoculation? Sorry for the silly question, but what is that?

February 9, 2012	#25
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	janezee, I'm in Poland and I never was in a military And freezes are medium here, -10C this night.. -20C last week was harder OneDahlia, nice cage.. my strawberries are eaten by my cat:/ He loves that vegetable gourmet dishes : strawberries, tomato gel, some greens..:} I wonder how will he react to snow peas:}

February 9, 2012	#27
FarmerShawn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,001	For fresh shelling peas, I always grow Lincoln, because they just seem to freeze the best. I have lately been growing Coral, because they come in so darned early, and I keep switching around for my third choice (a late pea) searching for one that will withstand the mildew that always hits and signals (causes) the end of the pea season. I've tried a couple of the sugar snap variations, but have settled on the original, Sugar Snap, as the tastiest and most reliable. But they don't freeze all that well, to our taste, so we eat and share them fresh. Most never made it out of the garden, before I started taking them to market. They do sell well. They also need a tall and strong trellis. With the Lincolns and other shelling peas, I always pick a bunch late afternoon or evening, and we spend the after-supper time sitting in front of the TV with big bowls in our laps and buckets for the pods beside us. After they are all shelled, it only takes a couple of minutes to blanch and freeze them, and they are our favorite veggie this time of year.

February 9, 2012	#28
Petronius_II Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM - Zone 7a Posts: 209	"Innoculation? Sorry for the silly question, but what is that?" The short answer to that question is, something you may really need, but probably don't. The long version goes like this: Inoculating, as used here, is coating the seed with a wee bit of beneficial bacteria, or adding it to the planting hole. Or maybe digging it into the soil later on. Ideally, the roots of all plants have a symbiotic relationship with soil bacteria. The mycorrhizae that you may have heard about can partner up with a wide variety of crops, not just legumes. The bacteria digest various elements out of the soil and pass it on, in a more soluble form, to the roots of the plants. (Don't ask me what good the bacteria get out of the deal; I'm more of a science writer than a scientist, so I'm often writing about things I understand rather imperfectly myself. Long story short, I'm sure the bacteria have their reasons, ya know?) So that's why mycorrhizae are a hot item among cutting-edge gardeners these days. Depending on which species of bacteria and which species of plant, they can supply e.g. phosphorus, maybe a little manganese here and there... Good finished compost, by the time it's applied to the soil, is loaded with too many different species of bacteria to count. However, the one element most bacteria/plant partnerships come up short on, is nitrogen, one of the most essential elements of all. No nitrogen, no protein. No protein, no growth. Mycorrhizae can often get it out of the soil, but what if the soil is scanty in nitrogen to begin with? It may become an "all the king's horses and all the king's men" kind of situation. And that's why legumes are so special. Peas, beans, clover, alfalfa, carob and locust trees... They all have long established relationships, rather like a "joint business venture" in human affairs, with one or more kinds of bacteria. And these legume partners don't depend on taking nitrogen out of the soil. They can take it right out of the air. I think you can figure where scientific discoveries like this could lead. In the case of legume-friendly bacteria, this stuff has been known for many years, leading to products like this: http://www.gardensalive.com/product.asp?pn=4400 and these: https://www.superseeds.com/products....arch=inoculant ...But if you have reasonably good soil and/or supplement it with good compost, you probably don't really need it. It tends to be a rather pricey item. Farmers really kind of need it, because if they're not using it to get that extra 10 or 20 or 30 percent out of their crop, their competitors in the next county are. For home gardeners, it depends on how big your wallet is, how good or bad your soil is, how adamant you are about wanting to get mucho mucho mucho beans and peas out of your small space... You get the picture.