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Old July 8, 2019   #1
jtjmartin
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Default Good News on Carbon Capture?

Carbon Engineering out of Canada reports that they will soon be able to capture a ton of carbon from the atmosphere for about $100. The "going rate" has been around $600/ton. They foresee a day where we can be carbon neutral at an affordable price.

In addition, they have a technology to turn the captured CO2 into a cleaner fuel creating further savings.

Here's how the Canadian government describes it:
"Founded in 2009, Carbon Engineering is a Canadian-based clean energy company developing and commercializing two clean technologies: 1) Direct Air Capture extracts carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and 2) AIR TO FUELS™ process synthesizes atmospheric carbon dioxide into clean, affordable transportation fuels."

I am not an expert in this area - but Bill Gates has funded a lot of this research - so I hope it's on the level!!
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Old July 8, 2019   #2
bower
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That's a big drop in price.
I find it pretty exciting to read about the crazy (or should I say thoughtful and cool!) things people are experimenting with, in carbon capture and utilization. Last one I recall reading was producing carbon nanotubes or nanofibers out of the CO2.



Just googled and got this page - first article today is about converting CO2 to fertilizers.
http://www.carboncapturejournal.com/allnews.aspx


Net zero emissions, it's not an impossible goal (thank goodness!).
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Old July 8, 2019   #3
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The bumble bees in my yard come in two sizes, large and small. I used to be able to grab and hold large bumble bees with my finger and thumb when I was a kid but I have lost courage with age.


I noticed this wee guy in a video clip that happened to be just in the right focus range. They like to hang around the parsley flowers. When the parsley blooms is when they show up here.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
Tormato
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I don't know what to believe in the whole "climate change" arena. I'm not an expert. And, from all of the pro/con opinionated (where there is next to no neutral) reporting, I may never be an expert.



The latest I've read is some "scientist" saying we should try to double the current CO2 percentage in the atmosphere. The claim is that crops will have a 30-50% increase in yield. But, there was no mention of any possible good or adverse effects on any other part of the planet.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #5
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I'm with you. I don't know. I have a science degree and am a current member of the American Chemistry Society.

I can tell you many scientists say the same thing - they don't know anything except that the prior predictions have been off.

I find affordable Carbon capture to be an interesting test case of sorts. Some green advocates claim that it wouldn't be enough . . . because it wouldn't change society. That's not science - that's control - which is what happens when science and politics mix.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #6
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This (CO2 increase benefits plants) is a pretty common argument from climate skeptics - it's more of a theory than fact based analysis.

Experimentally you do get increased yield from some crops if you double CO2 (and pour on the fertilizer) but for some reason the nutritional value declines - notably iron, zinc and protein are much reduced in foods produced at higher CO2.
In the wild, you may get some increases in growth but only until the system becomes limited by another nutrient - typically N.
And of course there are the other effects of climate change which have adverse effects - heat and drought can do more harm than any benefit of extra CO2.
So says:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...nefit-plants1/


It's too bad because, can you imagine pumping excess CO2 into greenhouses to clear the atmosphere and reap a bounty of food.... it would be such an obvious win-win thing to do if it didn't compromise the food value.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #7
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On the other hand, SCIENCE supports that yields may be increased whether you are a believer or skeptic:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2995

Like climate - it depends on many different variables.

It is interesting that true science depends on skepticism and not belief.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #8
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It often amazes me how some people can go all the way with some science and totally deny and or ignore other science if it doesn't fit their ideas.
Cherry picking we might say.

I had this conversation with a woman just the other day.
I asked her questions and by the time it was over she didn't know what to think.

Now about this capturing carbon.
Is it going to be fed, housed and treated properly?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
It often amazes me how some people can go all the way with some science and totally deny and or ignore other science if it doesn't fit their ideas.
Cherry picking we might say.

I had this conversation with a woman just the other day.
I asked her questions and by the time it was over she didn't know what to think.

Now about this capturing carbon.
Is it going to be fed, housed and treated properly?
I don't have a clue as to what you are getting at. Could you tell us what you were trying to say?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
Worth1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemansker View Post
I don't have a clue as to what you are getting at. Could you tell us what you were trying to say?
You're the teacher, 'You tell me what you think I think I'm getting at and what I am thinking and or trying to say in a rather enigmatic way.

The latter statement was a tongue in cheek adaptation of an article I read in a hunting and fishing magazine years ago way back in the 70's I think.
Called, "Save the Skeet" or some such thing.
Field and Stream or Outdoor Life, can't remember; been a few drinks ago.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #11
bower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjmartin View Post
On the other hand, SCIENCE supports that yields may be increased whether you are a believer or skeptic:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2995

Like climate - it depends on many different variables.

It is interesting that true science depends on skepticism and not belief.

Yes, that is the first thing I noted from the article in Scientific American. Some yields do increase with higher CO2, even in the wild growth has been found to increase if N is not limiting. All the comments in the article are based on actual science - no caps required.
The fact that nutrient content is altered is also a scientific finding. They have not yet figured out WHY that happens, I'm sure there will be more research looking at that in the future.
I'm not sure I agree that science depends on skepticism - what it really depends on is basing your beliefs on relevant data, keeping an open mind, acknowledging sources of error, possibilities that hadn't been ruled out, and grinding down on the unknowns one detail at a time, chucking out your theories when they are disproven by any evidence at all, and so on.

I'm sorry I made reference to "climate skeptics" if that upset anybody.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #12
Worth1
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To you Bower.

I watched a video where the person who is a PhD professor said another PhD professor came up to a student and shook his hand for disproving something he believed in and taught for years.
That is skepticism in it's truest form.
The ability to take nothing at face value.
You know me very well, I take nothing at face value.
In other words if a coin says it is $20 in gold I am going to weigh it.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #13
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Not upset - we both love tomatoes!

I'm just skeptical when "belief" words are mixed into science. I was trained in the 1980's that science NEVER says "believe me", "trust me" - science is always skeptical. I'm just skeptical of science that requires belief - but I've been wrong many times before!

Here's some classic quotes:

Skepticism

"Scientists tend to be skeptical, but the weakness of the community of science is that it tends to move into preformed establishment modes that say this is the only way of doing science, the only valid view." Walter Gilbert

"Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism." David Suzuki

“Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert opinion.”
― Richard Feynman

"Most institutions demand unqualified faith; but the institution of science makes skepticism a virtue."
Robert K. Merton

"The virtues of science are skepticism and independence of thought." Walter Gilbert

Belief

"Science is methodology. As a belief system it's disastrous."
Edgar Mitchell

As a scientist, I don't believe anything. Science shouldn't use the word belief. There are things more likely and less likely. Science can say nothing with absolute certainty.
Lawrence M. Krauss
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #14
Worth1
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Lawrence M. Krauss has had some, 'we might say, ((difficulties)).
Known of him for quite some time.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
It often amazes me how some people can go all the way with some science and totally deny and or ignore other science if it doesn't fit their ideas.
Cherry picking we might say.
At face value, this makes sense.

However, some people who are skeptical of (human induced) climate change are skeptical of it because (in part), the very people telling us the world is going to end have livelihoods that depend on telling us the world is going to end.
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