Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Historical background information for varieties handed down from bygone days.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 21, 2008   #16
Andrey_BY
Tomatovillian™
 
Andrey_BY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Minsk, Belarus, Eastern Europe (Zone 4a)
Posts: 1,885
Default

Carolyn,
there are at least 2 different ways to spell one Cyrillic word in English with Latin letters. Germans use the same Latin letters but spell Cyrillic letters differently so you will get at least another 2 ways of spelling from Russian to German. That's why Reinhard and Mannfred have so many varieties from former Soviet Union countries but with the special German kind of spelling, for example.

As for Ephiopea and Ephiopeans as one the most known black for Soviets I see it under education exchange prism. There is a well-known University in Moscow called Peoples' Friendship Univercity of Russia (http://www.pfu.edu.ru/en/). They have been giving a great education with a wide professional scale to so many foreign students (especially from Africa). So I think there were a plenty of Ethiopeans there and Soviet people associate blacks with Ethiopeans much even if they usually have mild black skin
__________________
1 kg=2.2 lb , 1 m=39,37 in , 1 oz=28.35 g , 1 ft=30.48 cm , 1 lb= 0,4536 kg , 1 in=2.54 cm , 1 l = 0.26 gallon , 0 C=32 F

Andrey a.k.a. TOMATODOR

Last edited by Andrey_BY; February 24, 2008 at 04:14 AM.
Andrey_BY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21, 2012   #17
ScottinAtlanta
Tomatovillian™
 
ScottinAtlanta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 2,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrey_BY View Post
Carolyn ,

actually Ethiopia as well as some other countries with Communist party regimes have been never occupated by Soviet Union Army. Their goverment just asked USSR to help with weapons, Army technicians and sometimes Soviet and foreign Communist leaders made decision like Soviet soldiers had to dislocate in such countries like Ethiopia, Cuba and many countries of former Warsaw Pact countries. The same way USA are still having military bases in many countries And I highly doubt any Soviet soldiers/officers thought about bringing any vegetable seeds with them and grow them there You don't know Soviet Army
We (my parent's family) haveve spent 3,5 years in Eastern Germany as a part of Soviet Army forces there (and my wife's parents had been to Cuba that way) and I must admit nobody from our neighboors think about vegetable gardening or seeds that times...
Well, in 1990, when I first visited Vietnam, I saw a Soviet aircraft on the runway, with dozens of Soviet women disembarking. A Vietnamese official told me it was a visit of wives to their husbands stationed in Vietnam. Many of them carried bags of food and even vegetables, no doubt requested by their husbands. It makes sense to me that some of them carried seeds with them that could be turned into gardens for the benefit of the men.
ScottinAtlanta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24, 2012   #18
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,987
Default

I imagine the same applies to tomato varieties, now considered heirlooms in their adopted country, whose origin actually is the United States, but carried back by exchange students, naturalized U.S. citizens visiting their relatives, or via some other means of transport from the U.S. to the adoptive country.

Also, I wonder about the true origin of "black" tomatoes supposedly native to the U.S., yet sharing the same gf genes with "black" tomatoes supposedly native to the former USSR, France, and the Philippines.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24, 2012   #19
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by travis View Post
I imagine the same applies to tomato varieties, now considered heirlooms in their adopted country, whose origin actually is the United States, but carried back by exchange students, naturalized U.S. citizens visiting their relatives, or via some other means of transport from the U.S. to the adoptive country.

Also, I wonder about the true origin of "black" tomatoes supposedly native to the U.S., yet sharing the same gf genes with "black" tomatoes supposedly native to the former USSR, France, and the Philippines.
I keep forgetting to post here but my former student Tadesse Wuhib, who was from Ethiopia said that there were permanent camps, or the like, where the Russians did live and did have gardens so I still think that Black Ethiopian was from the former USSR and named by someone Black Ethiopian.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Black_Ethiopian

.. from the Ukraine as documented above.

And speaking to the issues that Travis just raised I find the following thread from GW to be very interesting on a number of fronts:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...529042.html?13

Scroll down to the post by Mulio on April 21 and look at the assigmnet of gf alles and the comments that go with the interpretations.

Travis, despite what's been written about the origin of the so called blacks I still feel that the true origin was not the US, although yes, we know there were some around, especially after reading the thread here in the Legacy Forum about True Black Brandywine as introduced by Will Weaver, I still feel that it was the other way around, that is, so called blacks coming from especially the Crimea area of the former USSR.

Can I prove it? Well no one else can so I guess I'm entitled to my own opinion.
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30, 2012   #20
Tracydr
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7
Posts: 3,047
Default

Is there any chance that black tomatoes were originally a mutation? Could that mutation have occurred more than once, causing the origin of black tomatoes to be more than one country? Unlikely, but just a thought.
It does seem that more than a few black tomatoes originate from the Eastern European countries, and with the number if immigrants that came from there to the US in the late 1800s to Eary 1900s it seems to make sense that somebody simply brought seeds with them, bringing the black tomatoes to the US, from which the black gene was added to the US tomato gene pool.
Tracydr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30, 2012   #21
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracydr View Post
Is there any chance that black tomatoes were originally a mutation? Could that mutation have occurred more than once, causing the origin of black tomatoes to be more than one country? Unlikely, but just a thought.
It does seem that more than a few black tomatoes originate from the Eastern European countries, and with the number if immigrants that came from there to the US in the late 1800s to Eary 1900s it seems to make sense that somebody simply brought seeds with them, bringing the black tomatoes to the US, from which the black gene was added to the US tomato gene pool.
For sure the gf alleles could have been a mutation, for almost all new varieties arise either by an initial X pollination and dehybridization or a mutation, either a seed DNA mutation or one in a plant cell, called a somatic mutation.

From origin analysis, mainly from histories given for specific varieties it appears that the gold/red bicolors originated in Germany or near by and were brought the US via immigrants for that area.

We have no information as to what was grown in the Eastern European countries in the mid 1800's to the late 1800s when so many immigrants did come to the US. All we know as to possible origins was the analysis of gf alles in the link from GW that I provided above.
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9, 2012   #22
Fred Hempel
Tomatovillian™
 
Fred Hempel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunol, CA
Posts: 1,868
Default

Absolutely fascinating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
Carolyn,

This may have happened because not many other 'black' nations were widely known to 'general' Soviet public... And also because the Ethiopian culture is so interesting and unique. I remember as a kid I was watching a weekly program on TV back in Russia that was called something like 'The Club of Cameramen Travellers' where they were showing other countries. I am sure that there was a list of countries that were allowed to be shown on Soviet TV, and Ethiopia was one of them. Anyway, interestingly enough I remember watching one of these programs where Ethiopia was a main topic; I don't remember any other countries being shown - probably because it was a long time ago and I forgot... but Ethiopia and ethiopian people and culture got embedded in my brain. I think that was back in the mid or late 1970s...

Sorry for a long rumbling about a distant past...
Fred Hempel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10, 2013   #23
TerpGal
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Olney, MD
Posts: 17
Default

All of this is so interesting and nice to know about my favorite tomato (and it is my favorite, just love orb
TerpGal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:13 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2016 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★