use of epson salt as fertilizer

[WVTomatoMan]

carolyn: I use epsom salts because I like big green healthy plants. A lot of old timers around here use it. So, I did some side by side tests and liked the results. Nothing real scientific or anything.

fortyonenorth: My guess is there aren't 100 gardens in all of America with soil so deficient of Mg that you'd HAVE to add it. BTW, I have my soil tested. I can't see how the damage can't be easily overcome when used as a foliar spray. Like I posted above I jacked it to a plant to see what would happen - it got big and green and didn't set fruit for one flowering cycle then grew out of it. Are you saying that you had different results? You can take grass that's been treated with weed'n feed and use it as mulch and it will knock the tomato plants dead and you can grow big strong healthy tomato plants in that very spot the next year. So, 2, 4-D can leech through the soil and epsom salts can't?

all: The original poster asked a question about how to use it and I told him how I do it and gave appropriate warnings. Reed, Reed's grandpa, and I have used it and have had success. Your milage may vary. Be cautious and good luck.

Randy

[Lcottomsvcs]

My grandpa used ES and also put wooden matches in the planting hole. According to him the sulfur was the needed mineral. His plants were always loaded with fruit. I agree with Carolyn, it is more likely that the minerals used in the photosynthesis process are what is benefiting the plants. But I would never tell grandpa that.

[stonysoilseeds]

i use eom salts because back in the day at college my favorite agronomy professor always stressed it as the magic compound for growing and ripening tomatoes.. doc curtis would say tomatoes would ripen 3 weeks from flower by using epson salts im not sure thats true and realistically it would only benefit the plants if the soils were deficient in magnesium and sulfur to begin with i have also heard of placing a couple matchsticks under each pepper plant

[hardwaterbob]

I thank everyone for the input so I guess that I will experiment with your suggestions.


I have about eight of the same plants in the ground and will try to experiment with all of you ideas and keep some records to see if I notice any difference.

Finding and sharing is what this is all about so thanks again to all and I will post and take pictures to share for 2012.

hwb

[MissS]

Epsom salts are supposed to aid in photosythesis and provide lush green growth. My grandpa used it too. He also used vinegar on his gardenias to help them green up and acidify his soil. He was a great gardener not only of tomatoes, but had 5 acres of gardens of all sorts. He used epsom salt twice a year and told me that if you use them, use only half of the amount of fertilizer that is called for. He loved to garden and he loved to save money. This helped him satisfy both of these drives.

[Worth1]

What can I say, I sprayed my garden down with vinegar.

Worth

[MissS]

Worth, Do not spray the plants themselves with vinegar. I also use vinegar as a weed killer. If you spray it on staight right on the weeds, the acid takes care of your weeds and you can also kill slugs if you spray it directly on them.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by MissS

Worth, Do not spray the plants themselves with vinegar. I also use vinegar as a weed killer. If you spray it on staight right on the weeds, the acid takes care of your weeds and you can also kill slugs if you spray it directly on them.

No worries this stuff is diluted through an ortho dial and spray.
Hasn't hurt the plants at all.

Thanks for the warning though.

Worth

[cedarswamp]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Help me understand b'c I've never understood why some folks use Epsom salts, and when I ask most say my father or grandfather did so I do as well.

It's magnesium sulfate. I can understand the Mg++ part b'c that's the central part of the chlorophyll molecule so one might expect more photosynthesis. And then one could say that the greater the photosynthesis the more energy compounds of ATP and GTP that are made and those allow for synthesis of all of the vegetative parts of a plant as well as blossom formation and fruit set and fruit maturation.

Is that it?

Since I can't see any major role for the sulfate, then why not just use a liquid spray high in Mg++, well, the sulfate part would acidify things, now that I think about it a bit, but, well, I'm still wondering.

Carolyn,

Epsom salt MgSO4·7H2O contains a large percentage of oxygen atoms, perhaps a concentrated amount of oxygen in the root zone would account for some folks perception that ES aids in lush growth.

Just a guess, for the record I don't use it.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by cedarswamp

Carolyn,

Epsom salt MgSO4·7H2O contains a large percentage of oxygen atoms, perhaps a concentrated amount of oxygen in the root zone would account for some folks perception that ES aids in lush growth.

Just a guess, for the record I don't use it.

SO4 (Sulfate) is the plant available form of Sulfur that is taken up by roots, it doesn't disassociate into Sulfur and Oxygen in the soil. S04 and its hydrated metal salts like MgSO4·7H2O are subject to leaching with the soil water, so what you put into the soil as Epsom Salts may be mostly washed away by rain or watering and never get to be utilized by the plants
I think the bottom line is that Epsom Salts can be used as a Magnesium and Sulfur fertilizer, but it mostly used as a quick fix for Magnesium deficiencies. For the record, I've used it once as a foliar spray for a Magnesium deficiency, but a little dolomite lime is a better long term solution to that problem.

[carolyn137]

OK, I refuse to try to remember my college chem class, two semesters, and then both quant and qual, each one semester.

Besides I took those classes so long ago it's a wonder I even remembered I took them, let alone remember anything/

At thos point I can share with you that for many years, and I don't know if it's still done, Epsom salt was sprayed on the Palm trees in some areas of FL to green them up before the snowbirds arrived from the north, since they expected to see lush green Palms swaying in the breezes.

Ray, I must say that when I see where you live I think of so many villages and towns and waterways in NYS with names derived from past indigeous Indian names. Sometimes driving back from Rochester or Syracuse to the Albany area where I lived and gardened for so many years before moving here in retirement, and this was when I was in college in the Ithaca area, I'd take rt 20 instead of the Thruway, and meander around on the way home. So many many place names derived from Indian words, and closer to home so many derived from Dutch place names.

Why am I talking about this? Well, I'm up at this ridiculous hour trying to get this room cooled down, it's 66F outside and 73 F inside here by the computer and knowing what's coming re heat the next few days I simply cannot get the temp in here lower. My good table fan is to my right in front of a window.

Thank heaven's for variable fan speed with the computer and who cares anyway since my Verizon DSL line is acting up again and yesterday I was kicked off 6 times. Verizon has been chastised for paying more attention to their wireless customers than to folks like me.

[WVTomatoMan]

hardwaterbob: I figured if anyone around here used Epsom Salts on plants other than tomatoes it would be Tom Cook, so I stopped by yesterday and talked to him. I was right he has used it on squash. He uses it as a side dressing. Without input from me he again reiterated that you only want to use it twice per year at most. BTW, since I used it in the hole this year I won't use it again. That's it one shot and done. And, I don't always use it. If you decide to give it a try please report back your results.

Randy

[livinonfaith]

Last year I decided to try an Epsom salt foliar spray, because I had read that it was really great for plants. I followed what was said on a few websites and sprayed all of my tomatoes and peppers a week or two after I put them in. (I honestly can't remember the exact mixture, but I had at least three quarters of the box left over this year and I sprayed over thirty plants the first time and at least fifteen the second. So it wasn't huge amounts per plant.)

A few weeks later, I went to make the recommended second spray. On a whim, I decided to only spray half of the plants, just to see if the Epsom salts were really doing much good.

Thank goodness I didn't spray them all the second time! Of the eight tomato plants that I sprayed the second time, I think I got four tomatoes. Four, and those were very late in the season.

It didn't seem to bother the peppers quite as much, except for the Marconis. I only got three of those last year.

I wouldn't spray Epsom salts on my plants again, ever! Maybe putting it in the soil is less potent, though. I look at Raybo's recommendation for Epsom salt in his 'Tainers and think, Heck No! But his tomatoes always look fantastic.

[duderubble]

A couple of posts here confirm the idea that lush plants does not always equal high production. We like top see that lush green growth, but I think it's clear that it may come at the expense of fruit production. Same deal with high nitrogen fert. It will give you lovely bushes.

[fortyonenorth]

Originally Posted by WVTomatoMan

fortyonenorth: My guess is there aren't 100 gardens in all of America with soil so deficient of Mg that you'd HAVE to add it. BTW, I have my soil tested. I can't see how the damage can't be easily overcome when used as a foliar spray. Like I posted above I jacked it to a plant to see what would happen - it got big and green and didn't set fruit for one flowering cycle then grew out of it. Are you saying that you had different results? You can take grass that's been treated with weed'n feed and use it as mulch and it will knock the tomato plants dead and you can grow big strong healthy tomato plants in that very spot the next year. So, 2, 4-D can leech through the soil and epsom salts can't?

A couple things here. Magnesium (along with calcium, potassium, and sodium) is a cation (cat-eye-on) - meaning it is a positively charged ion. Soil - or more specifically, the soil colloid - is negatively charged. So, like static cling, magnesium will "stick" to the soil. Anions, such as nitrate nitrogen, will leach from the soil because they have the same electrical charge as the soil. Think of two like magnets.

Soil does not have an infinite ability to "hold" cations. Heavy soils, like many clays, can hold lots of cations and hence hold lots of nutrients. Thin sandy soils can hold very little in the way of cations. So, if you have sticks-to-your-boots clay soil, with lots of magnesium, adding more will cause problems. First, because you don't need more magnesium. Second, because once you have too much, it's heck to get rid of it. On the other hand, if you have sandy soil, the chances are you have a magnesium deficiency. Adding epsom salts will help. Additionally, because sandy soils cannot "hold" many cations (like magnesium) any excess will be leached away.

If adding epsom salts worked for Grandpa, it's because there was a scientific basis for what he was doing - either that or he was spinning a yarn