Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Week Ago   #46
brownrexx
Tomatovillian™
 
brownrexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 672
Default

One of the things about organic honey is how the bees are managed. Most beekeepers medicate their hives for various pests and diseases and they also may give them supplemental food during the early spring and sometimes in the fall. Medications are usually mixed into this supplemental feed. Some commercial beekeepers feed corn syrup which as you know can be made from GMO corn and maybe it also has Roundup residue.

I don't know the rules for organic beekeeping but I would guess that there are rules about what medications or foods for supplemental feeding can be used.

Many of the cheap honey products in the supermarket are not pure honey but are mixed with corn syrup.
brownrexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #47
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 4,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
Found some North American honey made from the US and Canada.
Giant 48 oz bottle for 8.99
In my opinion there isn't any such thing as "organic" honey how do they control the bees?
Not arguing just asking.

Worth
If it's labeled 'organic' it just means the keepers and processors observed certain standards, not sure what those are for beekeeping (I mean whether or how much forage they have to provide for the bees. )
I scored some 'buckwheat honey' once, that was cool! Really dark and flavorful. So I guess they had the bees surrounded.
Now that I recall it, honey bees have the special trait of collecting from the same type of flower they started out with... so maybe the type of honey can be manipulated to a great extent by providing the type you want collected, close to the hive. (Bumble bees don't do that, they'll take any flower that looks likely and handy.)

But...There is often some level of chemical residues in everything - label or not - I guess the label is for trying. The chinese honey though, they have tested that and reported on it, and neonics in honey is not something I want to eat on purpose. Imagine, we are pickier than the bees.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #48
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bastrop Texas Lost Pines Forest.
Posts: 31,178
Default

Well mine says 100% pure honey USDA Grade A fancy for what ever counts there.
Worth
__________________
Home of Cactus Flats Botanical Gardens.
The dinner table is where we need to get acquainted not the battlefield.
I Seek The Truth.
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #49
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 4,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
Well mine says 100% pure honey USDA Grade A fancy for what ever counts there.
Worth
Quite a lot of fancy honey for the price! Bet it tastes sweet.
Here in Canada all the honey says "product of Canada" or something like that, when you read the fine print its a blend of Canadian and Chinese honey not what you would think. Some law about labeling allows it called "product of Canada" on a percentage of Canadian product.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #50
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bastrop Texas Lost Pines Forest.
Posts: 31,178
Default

I looked till I was blue in the face and didn't see China anywhere.
What a minute lets look on the bottom----------------;
Nope.
Worth
__________________
Home of Cactus Flats Botanical Gardens.
The dinner table is where we need to get acquainted not the battlefield.
I Seek The Truth.
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #51
zeuspaul
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North County, San Diego
Posts: 248
Default

Sue Bee honey is 100% pure 100% natural and 100% American however it was tested to have 41 ppb glyphosate. Honey from near an orange grove tested 22 ppb. Even “organic mountain honey” contained low concentrations of glyphosate, the FDA documents show.

The European limit is 50 ppb. The US doesn't have a standard. It appears like orange blossom honey may contain less glyphosate than many others that may forage on wheat or soy.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey..._12008680.html
zeuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #52
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 4,370
Default

Last year they tested and reported residue levels on produce in Canada, and there were residues on organic produce as well.

Here is a study on "dicamba" and the effect exposure has on crop yield in soy.
https://dl.sciencesocieties.org/publ...ess=0&view=pdf

Dicamba is more likely to contaminate water because the residue soon washes out of the soil, and doesn't accumulate in the plants either afaik.

This study concluded that glyphosate accumulates in GM-soybeans. They didn't find any residues in conventional or organic soy.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...08814613019201
Compositional differences in soybeans on the market: Glyphosate accumulates in Roundup Ready GM soybeans
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #53
Redbaron
Tomatovillian™
 
Redbaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
Not getting involved in Monsanto one way or another.

But this is a fact.
The very person where I used to work that hated Monsanto and would talk about the evils of them to any person that would give him an audience is the very person that sat down next to me and berated me for eating my two pieces of bacon for breakfast.
All because of the nitrates/nitrites in my bacon.
This is where I informed him that not only it was my businesses and not his as to what I ate.
I also informed him he ate at least if not more nitrates/nitrites in his rabbit diet everyday than I did.
Go do the research for yourself dont believe me, these are facts that can be weighed with precision.

My question and this is not meant to anger anyone here it is just a question.
Even though I think Monsanto sucks.
Why is it that people hate Monsanto so much and that is all you see everywhere.
Why dont they have a hate on for every other chemical company in the world.
You never hear about DOW Formosa BASF and so on I could go on forever.
If anyone wants to see some nasty stuff go into one of theses plants.
It is also the reason I refuse to by polystyrene cups or plates.
The process and feed stock of making it is unreal nasty.
These are facts from me who has seen every bit of the feed stock and seen the stuff made and experimented with.
Not stuff from the internet.

So if you are speaking mean or good of Monsanto and you are drinking hot coffee out of one of these cups look down at it and think.
Just saying.
Worth
Why do people hate on Monsanto? It's a real question? Well starting way back in the 1950's and even earlier Monsanto has been literally an "evil chemical company" killing both human beings and the environment, up to and including extinction of entire species. Further more they are not even apologetic about it! Literally getting angry when anyone complains that their safety studies are inadequate or that they harmed people due to their reckless behavior.

But even all that would be partially acceptable I suppose. Reckless is not the same as purposeful. .... excepting that they have even used their influence to place their own employees in other safety labs so that supposedly independent safety labs and even at least one science journal would pass the safety tests on their products!

This is not just rumor, it is a pattern of evil behavior going back several decades. Most of the older stuff came out in the Anniston Alabama court case which Monsanto lost.

$700 Million Settlement in Alabama PCB Lawsuit - The New York Times

Lots of people read the NY Times or other main stream media and know about this. But what the headlines and newspapers didn't really show was the behind the scenes evidence presented to the court that made them grant such a verdict. Which by the way even though 700 million is a lot, it is actually probably less than 10% of the actual damages Monsanto caused.

Here is some of the public records from the court compiled by an environment activist working group: Read closely if you wish. But the deeper you dig the nastier it gets, and the angrier you'll get, be warned.

Anniston dirty secrets In-depth

It gets worse though because people have literally been planted by Monsanto into laboratories to rig safety studies. And again this is not just rumor it is fact and the courts have sent people to prison over this due to it being a criminal offense to submit a fraudulent safety study to EPA or any other federal agency designed to protect the public.

Again you may have read the NY Times article about it:

U.S. Seeks to Learn if Tests On Pesticides Were Falsified

But you probably never knew that Monsanto literally was directing much of the fraud with their inside guy!

In fact Monsanto even sent one of their guys to run an entire department at IBT doing work on Monsanto products. (Dr. Paul Wright)

Quote:
In March 1971, IBT hired Dr. Paul L. Wright, one of Monsanto's toxicologists, to oversee its PCB testing.[14][15] Dr. Donovan E. Gordon joined IBT as a pathologist in August 1971, and IBT finalized its safety analysis of PCBs in November 1971.[14] wiki link
ok but is there actual evidence of wrongdoing by the plants?
Memo from Monsanto to IBT directing them to change the results of a safety study

Monsanto and IBT managed to shred most the documents before the investigators got there, but they missed that one! OOPS!

And what happened to Dr Wright? Convicted!
3-EX OFFICIALS OF MAJOR LABORATORY CONVICTED OF FALSIFYING DRUG TESTS

And the complaint has been made that these groups are not really legit. That the science always backs Monsanto. errrrm not so fast.

This from Science magazine, with as good a reputation as any science journalism can have:
The Murky World of Toxicity Testing

And even all this pattern of bad behavior for decades could be forgiven if when they reorganized into the so called "New Monsanto" they got rid of all those evil practices and started fresh. Did they?

Start with placing an "inside guy" to manipulate the safety studies they don't like. Then use a fraudulent campaign to discredit both the study and the scientists who dared even try to do the study.

Take for example the Seralini study. First peer reviewed and published, then after Monsanto sends their guy in, gets retracted improperly after a very public fraudulent smear campaign.
RETRACTED: Long term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize
And here is evidence the study was improperly retracted:
Retracting Inconclusive Research: Lessons from the Séralini GM Maize Feeding Study

Conflicts of interests, confidentiality and censorship in health risk assessment: the example of an herbicide and a GMO

The Seralini affair: degeneration of Science to Re-Science?

And here is the study republished after a huge uproar against the retraction:
Republished study: long-term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize

And proof of the fraudulent smear campaign against Seralini?
Seralini’s team wins defamation and forgery court cases on GMO and pesticide research

Monsanto Emails Raise Issue of Influencing Research on Roundup Weed Killer

They are STILL trying to unethically control safety studies!
__________________
Scott

AKA The Redbaron

"Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system."
Bill Mollison
co-founder of permaculture

Last edited by Redbaron; 1 Week Ago at 11:38 PM.
Redbaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #54
brownrexx
Tomatovillian™
 
brownrexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 672
Default

I did not read all of the attached links but I truly believe that Monsanto is an unethical company and is causing irreparable harm to us and our planet.

However I also think that gardeners and farmers who buy their products are creating a market for those same products. In the beginning, they may have been mis-led into believing that those products were safe but now there has been enough information publicized that people should be questioning using those products.

As I said previously, I am not knowledgeable enough to debate this issue but I do believe that Monsanto is bad and their products are bad for us and our planet.

I only made any comments earlier because I didn't think that it was right for posters to browbeat or belittle other posters for having different opinions. That is not the way to have a proper discussion or even to influence anyone's way of thinking. It just makes people resistant to listening to your point of view and creates bad feelings which are counterproductive.

Bower - I wonder if the honey says Product of Canada even though it contains honey from China because it was mixed together in Canada. I have read lots of bad things about Chinese honey. It contains antibiotics, corn syrup and can be stored in lead soldered drums among other things. No thanks, I'll just stick to using my own honey.
brownrexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #55
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bastrop Texas Lost Pines Forest.
Posts: 31,178
Default

If honey conducts electricity it has too much lead in it.
Worth
__________________
Home of Cactus Flats Botanical Gardens.
The dinner table is where we need to get acquainted not the battlefield.
I Seek The Truth.
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #56
GrowingCoastal
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Vancouver Island Canada BC
Posts: 460
Default

"However I also think that gardeners and farmers who buy their products are creating a market for those same products. In the beginning, they may have been mis-led into believing that those products were safe but now there has been enough information publicized that people should be questioning using those products."

I have a neighbour who told me this year that they have stopped using Roundup because vinegar works on the weeds just as well and is a lot cheaper. These are not poor folks and have no safety concerns but it was the cost that stopped them.
GrowingCoastal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #57
Labradors2
Tomatovillian™
 
Labradors2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,862
Default

I'm so glad that Roundup is expensive and that people are exploring new ways to control weeds. It's supposed to be banned in Ontario, but people stocked up before the ban, and/or they drive over the border to get it. I worry about contamination of our wells by neighbours who think it is so necessary to have weed-free gravel driveways in our rural area

I don't know how we can escape Roundup though, since I have read that farmers use it to kill everything in the wheat field including the wheat for an easier harvest If we eat bread, there's our daily dose of cancer-causing chemicals right there.....

Regarding honey, why not buy it at Farmer's Markets or from local producers?

Linda
Labradors2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #58
Fusion_power
Tomatovillian™
 
Fusion_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,023
Default

I'm a beekeeper folks. Most beekeepers in the U.S. treat their bees with pesticides to kill varroa mites. These pesticides can show up as residues mostly in the wax but also in the honey. A few beekeepers such as myself went to the trouble to select and breed bees with genetic resistance to varroa so that we do not have to treat for mites. For this reason, I can legitimately state that my honey is produced by bees that have never been treated with miticides.

The devil is in the details. Even though I do not put pesticides in my hives, my bees forage on flowers up to roughly 2 miles from the hive. This includes large areas farmed for corn, soybeans, pastureland, hay fields, etc. Some of these areas are treated with chemicals such as neonicoteinoids, herbicides like roundup, antifungals, etc. I can't in good conscience advertise my honey as "organic" because the environment contains chemicals. This does not mean my honey has large amounts of chems. The amounts would be extremely small measured in parts per billion. According to govt standards, there is no problem eating food with such small amounts of contaminants. I generally agree that the amounts in question are so small they don't matter.

On the matter of goats, there are three common goats in literature.

Scape Goat - this is the goat that had sins heaped on his head and he was led into the wilderness to carry them away.

Judas Goat - This goat is staked out to attract feral goats so they can all be captured and disposed of. There has been a lot of work in Texas using Judas pigs with radio trackers to find and eliminate feral hogs.

Sacrificial Goat - This goat is separated out and fed to the lions so the lions will leave the rest of the goats alone. This is the Goat Worth should probably have mentioned instead of the scape goat.

There is one other Goat worth mentioning called an Old Goat. If we live long enough, most of us will be referred to as an "Old Goat" at some point. I won't apply the appellation to Worth, clearly he is a Spring Chicken.
Fusion_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #59
AlittleSalt
Tomatovillian™
 
AlittleSalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Zone 8A Texas Heat Zone 9
Posts: 9,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
I'm just glad the Houston Astros won the Super Bowl.
Worth
The Arlington (Dallas) Cowboys beat the KC Chiefs today. Surprised me. Hmm, I'm talking to Worth about sports.
__________________
Salt, AlittleSalt, Robert
AlittleSalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #60
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bastrop Texas Lost Pines Forest.
Posts: 31,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlittleSalt View Post
The Arlington (Dallas) Cowboys beat the KC Chiefs today. Surprised me. Hmm, I'm talking to Worth about sports.
I cant believe someone didn't call me out about the Astros winning the super bowl.
No I didn't watch the games hearing about it is good enough for me.

As for the all organic stuff to each their own but if I had cows and other food animals I would vaccinate them and use other stuff to keep the flies and parasites off.
The same as I would myself and my pets.
I personally think it is the responsible thing to do.

As for the parts per billion if your neighbor sprays roundup or pesticide up wind of you while you are outside.
I can imagine you just took in way more than a lifeline supply of non organic honey that may or may not have any in it at all.

Worth
__________________
Home of Cactus Flats Botanical Gardens.
The dinner table is where we need to get acquainted not the battlefield.
I Seek The Truth.
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:42 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★