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Old May 27, 2015   #16
NarnianGarden
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Last year, I had Carrot-like which is similar to Silvery Fir Tree. Taste? I don't remember it being particularly blah, I am sure anything homegrown beats the supermarket stuff '
But I am not a fan of red tomatoes, so their details don't stay in my memory.
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Old May 27, 2015   #17
BlackBear
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I think the parthenocarpic bunch are inadvertently a good part solution for this

early cool set / yet heat resistant quest :

Gold nugget , Siletz, legend , Oregon spring etc.

as

Temps to cool or to hot(with in reason ) does not stop parhenocarpic fruit set/development I think.

It's just that given my normal historical average year for me I would only choose Gold nugget.
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Old May 27, 2015   #18
BlackBear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NarnianGarden View Post
Last year, I had Carrot-like which is similar to Silvery Fir Tree. Taste? I don't remember it being particularly blah, I am sure anything homegrown beats the supermarket stuff '
But I am not a fan of red tomatoes, so their details don't stay in my memory.
Well actually I like Silvery Fir, and yes they are better than supermarket etc. I like as they are dependable in the cool and heat and will give 2 crops here as they are so early and can grow even in small containers when most varieties will not (I have had medium size fruit from 1 gallon ..but they prosper of course in larger containers ) and they grow well under lights ..indoor . over winter aaaannnnd are interesting ornamental leaf etc.
They of course are not the Big Classic tomato ... I have noticed some folks call them " spitters ' as they are tart....the peasant in me values Silvery Fir for all the above practical reasons. LOL
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Old May 27, 2015   #19
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I don't have an answer to your question, or nothing to add to "Stupice" or 'cherries' for cool + hot tolerance really... but it is a common problem. Our climate seems to be similar to yours. I try to plant early to get good fruit set before mid July because that's usually when we have the "too hot" situation for a couple of weeks in the greenhouse. It's often overcast here in spring, and I find that the tomatoes are visibly shocked when the sun comes out . They have adapted to the low light condition and when it suddenly changes - well, we suffer the same thing ourselves to be honest. My buddy calls it the "mole man" effect.

Still I expect the tomatoes to set and not drop their blossoms as long as temperatures stay below 90 F. Extra water helps if they're having a lot of wilty down time. (Really noticing that this year - watering even when they're not dry, made them a lot happier on a bright sunny day).

It is a worthy goal, to find tomatoes that tolerate both extremes of their temperature range. But also, if there are ways of taking care of them that will help, I'd like to learn about it.
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Old May 27, 2015   #20
NarnianGarden
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Has anyone suggested Sophie's Choice? Bred in Canada, it is already well adapted to the cool / changable weather conditions.
Our summers are very similar - cold and damp, followed with heat waves that seem to paralyze everything.

I'm going to grow Carrot-like next year again, for the ornamental value if nothing else...
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Old May 27, 2015   #21
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I actually asked the lady at the plant sale what her favorite type was when I was buying my tomatoes, and I was surprised to hear her say with warmth in her voice, "Oh, Silvery Fir Tree... I just love it!" Her second pick was Black Krim. She must like the tart ones!

BlackBear, what do you think is an optimum size for the Fir Tree, maybe 5 gallons?

I was also thinking of Canadian varieties - is it my imagination, or have I heard of one called Manitoba?

bower - interesting info, that watering mid-day wilt is helping you - maybe it's because the watering cools the soil?
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Old May 27, 2015   #22
BlackBear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower View Post
I don't have an answer to your question, or nothing to add to "Stupice" or 'cherries' for cool + hot tolerance really... but it is a common problem. Our climate seems to be similar to yours. I try to plant early to get good fruit set before mid July because that's usually when we have the "too hot" situation for a couple of weeks in the greenhouse. It's often overcast here in spring, and I find that the tomatoes are visibly shocked when the sun comes out . They have adapted to the low light condition and when it suddenly changes - well, we suffer the same thing ourselves to be honest. My buddy calls it the "mole man" effect.

Still I expect the tomatoes to set and not drop their blossoms as long as temperatures stay below 90 F. Extra water helps if they're having a lot of wilty down time. (Really noticing that this year - watering even when they're not dry, made them a lot happier on a bright sunny day).

It is a worthy goal, to find tomatoes that tolerate both extremes of their temperature range. But also, if there are ways of taking care of them that will help, I'd like to learn about it.
ah ha ... see the coastal cool climate thing is a problem

that most of the inland does not seem to understand .....I always used to start early

to get the early fruit set and expect that the main growing season "could be " all over by August 25 or so as we could then get the first Fall rain that would last 3 days and was cold

...yes cold .....good for fish and ducks .....but not so much for regular Tomatoes in such marginal conditions .....at this point after the 3 day fall flood then would come the late blight

so if you didn't have Juliet , Legend , and yellow Pear in the mix with some other hybrids(gasp) you could get wiped out with late blight in the air ...at this first Fall Flood (anytime after August 21 ) I would pre-emptively move select containers under a covered deck ....less light but less of a beating from the cold fall rains......the quality of the plants was then extended.

Gardening in Newfoundland you must for sure understand the time limit of our coastal growing situation .

I can say I use Latah in the garden every year! In the cool years when we have had only 4 days of 70F/20 C or over by august long weekend it never let me down I think Latah is good for the regular sub 70F type years ...but I am not so sure on the Heat Tolerance .
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Old May 27, 2015   #23
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I do have Sophies Choice going right now ...I like them they seem to work well in 3 gallon

and in ground ...nice regular size fruit ... They seemed to provide later for me ...but maybe in this hot season they will be sooner ...I will watch closer this year for the the heat adaptable thing. They are definite candidates to grow and move under cover/shade /indoors when needed if in a 3 gallon .
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Old May 27, 2015   #24
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Yes I have Manitoba going this year ... I must say it reads like it should work well

with containers and in ground .......I have had success with it .....IN MANITOBA....ha ha ha

I wanted it to work with similar Prairie kin ...like Starfire and Bush beef ...but this is normally the cool coast and they were not as outstanding here for me .

Siberia (dwarf rugose leaf one),
Latah , Stupice , Sasha's altai , Cosmonaut Volkov did much better in the cool .

So I think Gregoris' altai is a choice to have productivity in cool yet resist the heat .


One I can't seem to stop this year is Fargo . so..I just try and go with what is happening sometimes the varieties choose the year to grow ...and the favourite ones I wish to grow are finicky.
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Old May 30, 2015   #25
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Latah is one of the University of Idaho releases, so you could look at the Moscow/UI climate data for a guide. June in Moscow has highs in the mid-70s F, lows in the mid-40s F; July, mid-80s, high-40s; August, mid-80s, high-40s; August, mid-70s, low-40s. I spent summers there as a child (a LONG time ago now), but my memory is that 90s were rare at that time.

http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/catalog/tomato.html has a bunch of the UI releases in its tomato list, if you are interested in trying some others: Benewah, Bonner, Gem State, Kootenai, Northern Delight, Sandpoint, Shoshone. Hmm, looks like Northern Delight was released by North Dakota State U, but was bred by the same guy. Washington State U (WSU, pronounced Wazoo by UI students as in "up the wazoo", the two schools are about 8 miles apart) is also represented in the list, as are a bunch bred in Canada (anything that ends in -bec was probably bred in Quebec). This is a great list for cool-season tomatoes. I'm thinking the NDSU tomatoes would be more likely to expect hot summers and short seasons, but that's just a guess. I don't get over 90 F much here on my mountain side.

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Old May 30, 2015   #26
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yeah .....U of I is a ggreat tip !

it saves time over stumbling over things ...when one is looking for some new ideas

As it turns out ...yes I have latah and it is a member of the family......

I did acquire Kootenai (growing now) and Sandpointe (next year ) .


As it does turn out in my area we do have a record breaking HOT/DRY May
in the "Rain Forest " precipitation was like 6 % of normal . The last few years have been dry
not enough snow for the Local Ski hill ...for 2 years ! Record low river levels ...boat regatas canceled cause river is not deep enough for to hold them . This is unprecedented ....Blackbear is not just being a chicken little "The sky is melting ...the Sky is melting ".

Our normal sub /20 C sub /70 F cool summer overcast norm (sub Tomato growing climate for some)

is most definitely something else/other this year Hotter/Dry/Sunny (no fog or clouds).

My regular cast of heirloom cool set tomatoes (which is usually a 3 week fruit set advantage in that cool type of year) did not like the heat in may and are slow to set ............
But don't Cry for me .....absolutely everything else that was adeveloped enough to have blossoms ..set fruit and profusely (better than Normal ! ).....by May 25 Siletz, Big beef, Sungold , Bloody Butcher , Black prince , Black Cherry , Stupice, Silvery Fir .

Just as I was getting good at the Cool/fog climate growing mode ....to use the Italian "Boche Ball " term ......." then somebody moved the Palino ! " and now another climate ....another mode ?
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Old May 30, 2015   #27
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Black Bear, if your temperatures are not hitting the 90's, there are probably lots of early and pretty cold tolerant tomatoes that will do fine, maybe better than the 'strictly cold and early' ones.
Black Early, Pervaya Lyubov, Chernomor, Yaponskiy Krab, Amazon Chocolate are some of the slicers that set up well here in cool and then ripened up nicely once they got used to summer sun - as early or within a week of Stupice. And I'm sure there are more - I'm trying a few new ones at least every year.
With my greenhouse, I can go as far as "early midseason" types, but only the select ones that will happily grow and set fruit below 70 F. I mostly go for early ones with a few early-mids, in case of a really bad year.. Late types are not an option, I guess you understand.
As regards the early reds, I've tried a bunch and liked a few. Still many I haven't tried. Stupice and Moravsky Div are reliable. Kimberley is earlier and pretty good but maybe not quite as cold tolerant. Best tasters for me were Alaska and Napoli a Fiaschetto. Cold Set and Siletz were decent to eat, but they basically burst every fruit - it does get hot in my greenhouse when the sun shines! I really like the early orange ones Zolotoe Serdtse and Orange-1 (aka Belarus Orange) but they sunscalded really badly when we had a month of extreme sun last year.
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Old May 31, 2015   #28
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Ah Ha !,

Thanks Bower !,

Those are a lot of leads and great info. to follow up ......in one sense I am sure the Tomato year will still work out fine .... funny ....I think we are speaking the similar cool coastal fog climate ....but on different coasts . Absolutely same here Early Mid season max. and late season are not an option.
here ......in the Historical average year . Green house and dry cover helps etc. if you can .

The Potato leaf ones seem to have a toughness that can work ........... (easy to cultivate from seed saving etc. )

I have Stupice, Kimberly ,Matina (later), I am trying Visitation Valley this Year ,

Galinas seems always to be productive but later for me . Going out on a limb and trying Mrs. Maxwells Big Italian (Might be a good year for this one ). For some reason I bombed Glacier..oops.

I also have Orange -1 going .....like the looks of it but it is just not along yet .

"So Many Tomatoes so Little time " ha ha ha

I think you understand about if your historical expectation is the cool coastal with ample frost free days ...yet marginal heat units and lower days of sunshine . ...
( I think your Tomato artisanship must be masterful in the Newfoundland climate to work with....Hollleeee)



Here on the Mid/North Island this particular year is a record breaking month of May. It is a Full above average whole Sunny Summer just in itself ...what happens if the trend continues for June July August eeeks ! Heat tolerance will become more important "Insurance " in years like this ... I would not have ever imagined this ! As I said before it actually is working out slightly better (so far) ... than a regular year ...pretty much anything that developed blossoms set fruit as my last list including Sasha's Altai , and Early girl Bush , Juliet , etc. I Just hope I don't get " Fried Green Tomatoes "on the Vine as the season gets into summer proper.

Again awesome bunch of info. In this cool climate pursuit

Thanks bower !
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Old May 31, 2015   #29
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Default More water and shade needed ..get over it !

The more I talk to people here in My area and notice gardens and container gardens .....

I see that they were "not ready for the sun "as their regular gardens were placed for advantage in the regular cool coastal / overcast/ fog climate.

Cool Coastal climates that did not normally have to worry much about shade
and partial placement of garden in shade as the overcast sky and cool temps were the shade . Everything needs much more water (work ).

This year is different some already have fried gardens before they know it ..so early in the season.

"Whaaaaat ?whats that ? shade ? ?? we don't do that here ! "

And I think we have been on level 2 water restrictions here already since April .

So much for "abundance" of water here on the West Coast.


I guess if we run out of water up here we can always drink Almond Milk from California
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Old May 31, 2015   #30
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Blackbear,
Are you familiar with https://www.heritageharvestseed.com/...in.html#slogan?

They have several varieties that sound like they would do well for us!

I'm seeing Old Brooks, Beaver Lodge Slicer, Mountain Princess, and Mystery Keeper seem to do well for them in Manitoba.

Mystery Keeper seems interesting and reads:

A long keeping storage tomato that can last several months. Medium size fruit ripen from the inside out and are slightly more acidic than other tomatoes. When picked in the yellow to light green stage in the fall (before frost), the tomatoes continue to ripen indoors over the winter months. Determinate, regular leaf foliage. (80- 90 days from transplant)
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