Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

General information and discussion about cultivating peppers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 29, 2018   #1
ARgardener
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: steamy southern Arkansas
Posts: 152
Default Dehybridizing peppers? - Gypsy pepper

I fell head over heels for Gypsy peppers this past season. Incredible producers in my hot and humid garden, trouble free, and fantastic quality fruit.

I'm not even sold on trying this, but could someone offer some direction on the likelihood/ process of dehybridizing a pepper variety?

https://www.burpee.com/vegetables/pe...rod000834.html
ARgardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #2
AlittleSalt
Tomatovillian™
 
AlittleSalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Zone 8A Texas Heat Zone 9
Posts: 13,072
Default

While this isn't an answer to the dehybridizing question, I did do a search.

At https://www.totallytomato.com/P/0316...+Hybrid+Pepper 100 seeds cost $10.95

At https://www.seedsnsuch.com/product/g...-pepper-seeds/ 100 seeds cost $10.35.

I do understand wanting to make them OP. I just don't have an answer.
__________________
Salt, AlittleSalt, Robert
AlittleSalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #3
rhines81
Tomatovillian™
 
rhines81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zone 5A, Poconos
Posts: 926
Default

There is more to it, but generally 8 generations of isolation and very selective culling for the desired traits at each step. Possibly better results if getting F1 seed from two or more sources from different years to cross your F2 moving forward. If your hybrid was from an interspecies cross, it could leave you with completely infertile seeds within a few generations.
Other than research, I am not experienced in this at all, so hopefully someone else can chime in.
rhines81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #4
ARgardener
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: steamy southern Arkansas
Posts: 152
Default

Looks like someone beat me to it... this is an F6/F7 dehybridization of "Gypsy". Saves me a bit of work, huh?

https://www.adaptiveseeds.com/produc...ueens-organic/
ARgardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #5
brownrexx
Tomatovillian™
 
brownrexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 1,193
Default

It would be a good idea to try this one and see if you like it and it performs as as well as the hybrid.

I am not trying to be critical but I can never understand why people love a hybrid and then want to "dehybridize" it and change it.

I have no problem growing hybrids.
brownrexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #6
rhines81
Tomatovillian™
 
rhines81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zone 5A, Poconos
Posts: 926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownrexx View Post
It would be a good idea to try this one and see if you like it and it performs as as well as the hybrid.

I am not trying to be critical but I can never understand why people love a hybrid and then want to "dehybridize" it and change it.

I have no problem growing hybrids.

I think what was meant by "dehybridize" was to make it a self-sustainable OP heirloom with the same characteristics it has now without dependency on a certain supplier.

Not that I don't buy hybrid seeds every year, but it'd be nicer to save seed and get a replica of what was grown previously.
rhines81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #7
ARgardener
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: steamy southern Arkansas
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownrexx View Post
It would be a good idea to try this one and see if you like it and it performs as as well as the hybrid.

I am not trying to be critical but I can never understand why people love a hybrid and then want to "dehybridize" it and change it.

I have no problem growing hybrids.
1. There's no guarantee a favorite hybrid will be around as long as you'd like. I've run across a few old timers who reminisce of an old, long-gone favorite. Making a hybrid OP ensures self sufficiency and longevity

2. It's a pain having to place an order every year for one packet of seeds. $5 for 20-30 seeds, plus s&h.. It's not major, but it's annoying regardless lol
ARgardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2018   #8
ARgardener
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: steamy southern Arkansas
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhines81 View Post
I think what was meant by "dehybridize" was to make it a self-sustainable OP heirloom with the same characteristics it has now without dependency on a certain supplier.

Not that I don't buy hybrid seeds every year, but it'd be nicer to save seed and get a replica of what was grown previously.
Agree with this
ARgardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31, 2018   #9
GoDawgs
Tomatovillian™
 
GoDawgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Georgia, 8a/7b
Posts: 804
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhines81 View Post
I think what was meant by "dehybridize" was to make it a self-sustainable OP heirloom with the same characteristics it has now without dependency on a certain supplier.

Not that I don't buy hybrid seeds every year, but it'd be nicer to save seed and get a replica of what was grown previously.
Agree. In fact, I was thinking about collecting seed from hybrid 'Packman' broccoli this spring and start selecting. 'Packman' has performed reliably year after year for me against a ton of other varieties and it's getting harder to find. Only two companies of the eight or so catalogs this year have it. Hybrid 'Blue Wind' is the only other broc that's come close.

Love that Gypsy pepper too! Very prolific and the best producing pepper I have.
GoDawgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31, 2018   #10
Tormato
Tomatovillian™
 
Tormato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 4,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDawgs View Post
Agree. In fact, I was thinking about collecting seed from hybrid 'Packman' broccoli this spring and start selecting. 'Packman' has performed reliably year after year for me against a ton of other varieties and it's getting harder to find. Only two companies of the eight or so catalogs this year have it. Hybrid 'Blue Wind' is the only other broc that's come close.

Love that Gypsy pepper too! Very prolific and the best producing pepper I have.


This thread reminds me that I have some old Blue Wind F2 broccoli seed, somewhere around here. And, some fresh Flavor Burst F2 pepper seed.
Tormato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31, 2018   #11
brownrexx
Tomatovillian™
 
brownrexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 1,193
Default

OK that makes sense. I wasn't thinking about the seeds becoming unavailable. I was thinking that by dehybridizing you would lose some of the desirable characteristics that were in the original because it is a hybrid.

Good luck with your project.
brownrexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31, 2018   #12
rhines81
Tomatovillian™
 
rhines81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zone 5A, Poconos
Posts: 926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownrexx View Post
I was thinking that by dehybridizing you would lose some of the desirable characteristics that were in the original because it is a hybrid.
I think inevitably you could lose something or a couple of things, but I have also seen where people will go back to the original hybrid (or an original parent, if known) and breed that back into say the F3 or F4 version with hope to regain or reinforce what they may have lost before moving forward again. This sets them back a little, but the goal is to end up with an OP version as close as possible to what you started with.
I also think the average home-grower would have a very difficult time ensuring that the bred-in disease resistance is retained from one generation to the next - so that may be the first thing lost along the way.
rhines81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2, 2019   #13
Tormato
Tomatovillian™
 
Tormato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 4,457
Default

The desirable characteristics of SunGold have never been kept in any dehybridizing attempt.
Tormato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2, 2019   #14
ARgardener
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: steamy southern Arkansas
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormato View Post
The desirable characteristics of SunGold have never been kept in any dehybridizing attempt.
I heard much depends on how similar the two parents of F1 were.. the dehybridizer of Gypsy says little variation of wildness occurred in trials; so he assumes the parents were similar species.
ARgardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:48 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2019 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★