ruffled shape mutation in a Blush fruit?

bower · July 25, 2014

I know shape of fruit is variable, but in this case the shape is so extremely different, I can only think it's a mutation. This little fruit is fairly flat so far, like a pointy coin shape, besides being ruffled.

If it is a mutation, I guess the seed would come true, and may be the only way to tell. Anyone else found strange shapes on Blush? I wonder if there are ruffles in its family tree?

Fred Hempel · July 25, 2014

If the other fruit on the plant are normal, and it looks like they are. It is probably not a mutation.

bower · July 25, 2014

Yes, the other fruit are normal, for sure (very pretty I might add!). Fruit that set before and after this one are normal shaped.

I thought that mutations could occur in the DNA of a single fruit though, during its development.... at least, I believe I have read here, for example, of a case of a single yellow on a red fruited plant that afterwards came true to seed (yellow).

But not in all cases, sometimes it is just a somatic mutation.. I don't know what genes are involved in ruffled fruit either, although it appears to be dominant (at least, in my F1 of PI120256 and Danko, all fruit are quite ruffled - but Danko might have some form of it as well).

As regards the effect of the environment, we've been in a heat wave the past month while this fruit was set,, with high UV index and lots of bright sun. Most plants have dropped all their blossoms but Blush is one that has been setting pretty well, at least till it got closer to the glass where it's hottest and nothing survives. There are only a few fruit in clusters above this one.

I have for sure seen lots of strange fruit shapes on other plants (usually in cold but in extreme heat too) due to incomplete pollination where some locules don't develop. Perhaps this is the case?

Fred Hempel · July 25, 2014

It certainly could be a mutation. But, I just think it is more likely a developmental abnormality, which are so common in tomato.

zipcode · July 25, 2014

Might be a megabloom.

**carolyn137** · July 25, 2014

Yes, the variety known as Yellow Riesentraube came from seeds from one fruit on a plant of all red ones. A somatic mutation, not a seed DNA mutation, and it was stable.

So why not let that one Blush fruit ripen up a bit, save the seeds and replant to see if it is a somatic mutation or an environmental effect.

I've been lucky to see several somatic mutations but they all involved just one branch of a plant that had either entirely different fruit shapes from the original, or colors different from the original.

And I'm sure some of you here have grown Casino Chips, a cherry, that was a one branch somatic mutation from the parent called Casino. Color still red but then cherry in shape and Casino itself was much larger, I think a large plum but I'm not taking the time to go fetch a picture.

Carolyn

clara · July 25, 2014

Last year, one single branch of Blush had perfectly round fruits - color and taste were absolutely identical to the "normal" fruits. I saved seeds separately and am re-growing them this year, but as far as I can see, all plants are producing the elongated size, sigh... I was hoping for a mutation with the same perfect taste!

bower · July 25, 2014

Too bad, Clara. I will save seeds though, as Carolyn suggested, and give it a try, just in case...

As regards the so common abnormal shapes in tomatoes, I personally suspect that they do it on purpose.

They see you admiring some other tomato shape down the row, and they decide to put out a few of the same.

Or maybe it's strictly peer pressure, and they don't really care about the 'animal caretaker''.

I have a Peacevine down the row from Blush that is putting out pear shapes, probably as close as it can get..

Pear pressure, obviously.

Darren Abbey · July 25, 2014

A somatic mutation in plants is little different than a germ-line mutation, as the plant can produce seeds from the part of itself which includes the somatic mutation.

That said, I suspect it is simply a minor developmental irregularity as is often seen in tomatoes (and most other plants when you start looking for them).

July 25, 2014	#6
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Yes, the variety known as Yellow Riesentraube came from seeds from one fruit on a plant of all red ones. A somatic mutation, not a seed DNA mutation, and it was stable. So why not let that one Blush fruit ripen up a bit, save the seeds and replant to see if it is a somatic mutation or an environmental effect. I've been lucky to see several somatic mutations but they all involved just one branch of a plant that had either entirely different fruit shapes from the original, or colors different from the original. And I'm sure some of you here have grown Casino Chips, a cherry, that was a one branch somatic mutation from the parent called Casino. Color still red but then cherry in shape and Casino itself was much larger, I think a large plum but I'm not taking the time to go fetch a picture. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

July 25, 2014	#2
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	If the other fruit on the plant are normal, and it looks like they are. It is probably not a mutation.

July 25, 2014	#3
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	Yes, the other fruit are normal, for sure (very pretty I might add!). Fruit that set before and after this one are normal shaped. I thought that mutations could occur in the DNA of a single fruit though, during its development.... at least, I believe I have read here, for example, of a case of a single yellow on a red fruited plant that afterwards came true to seed (yellow). But not in all cases, sometimes it is just a somatic mutation.. I don't know what genes are involved in ruffled fruit either, although it appears to be dominant (at least, in my F1 of PI120256 and Danko, all fruit are quite ruffled - but Danko might have some form of it as well). As regards the effect of the environment, we've been in a heat wave the past month while this fruit was set,, with high UV index and lots of bright sun. Most plants have dropped all their blossoms but Blush is one that has been setting pretty well, at least till it got closer to the glass where it's hottest and nothing survives. There are only a few fruit in clusters above this one. I have for sure seen lots of strange fruit shapes on other plants (usually in cold but in extreme heat too) due to incomplete pollination where some locules don't develop. Perhaps this is the case?

July 25, 2014	#5
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Might be a megabloom.

July 25, 2014	#7
clara Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,351	Last year, one single branch of Blush had perfectly round fruits - color and taste were absolutely identical to the "normal" fruits. I saved seeds separately and am re-growing them this year, but as far as I can see, all plants are producing the elongated size, sigh... I was hoping for a mutation with the same perfect taste!

July 25, 2014	#9
Darren Abbey Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 586	A somatic mutation in plants is little different than a germ-line mutation, as the plant can produce seeds from the part of itself which includes the somatic mutation. That said, I suspect it is simply a minor developmental irregularity as is often seen in tomatoes (and most other plants when you start looking for them).