Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 24, 2016   #1
JLJ_
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 759
Default Latah questions

Among other tomato projects this summer we're trying several of the not-new-but-new-to-us highly recommended early tomato varieties to see which might give us some minimal-fuss early tomatoes in our short season. Most are progressing nicely through their childhoods, about as expected, but Latah . . . when the 'grow quickly for short seasons' message went out, Latah certainly got the memo!

The Latahs are growing like the proverbial weeds. Considering that it'll still be a while before they can be outside, even with protection, they may be crowding us out of the house by the time they can move outdoors. Today heavy, wet snow is piling up everywhere -- bending the chokecherries (and the budding and blooming plum trees ) toward the ground -- falling from the trees in big lumps that has the puppy scared to go outside to tend to his needs . From the forecast, it may keep doing that for a week or so -- and then even if spring tries to return, there's no assurance that it will succeed.

But in view of Latah's impressive efforts, I want to plan homes for them to give them an optimum chance to show what they can do. I gather that they are a relatively short, bushy plant but I don't know what to expect . . . very short and round-bushy like Sophie's Choice when it is happy? Or built more like 4th of July and Moravsky Div?

Someone described it as a productive untidy sprawler -- I'm not sure what to think from that . . . a shape that tries to be round like Sophie's Choice but with longer branches?

I saw one remark that someone liked to grow it in 12" hanging baskets. They also remarked that it wasn't very prolific, so I infer that Latah didn't especially like living in a basket, but that it did grow at all in a basket did make me wonder about its natural shape.

Anyone noticed any particular environmental like/hates for Latah?

I gather that Greg Wingate of New Brunswick created a many generations selection of Latah, selecting for early/good performance in a Northern environment. Does anyone know if that is being maintained as a separate line and if so, how its performance compares with the "original" Latah?
JLJ_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #2
carolyn137
Moderator Emeritus
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
Default

I know Latah quite well as one of the 5 varieties bred by Dr.Boe at the U of Idaho

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Latah

The only two I've grown myself when I was still growing early varieties were Sandpoint and Latah, and I disliked Sandpoint intensely,for taste,and told Glen Drowns about that since that's where I got the seeds from when he told me he went to Sandpoint HS and knew Dr.Boe .

Gulp.

Glenn made an offer of all of the ones Dr.Boe bred in his catalog/website a few years back.

Yes,they are all very early,and are pretty much all round reds.

Why would that person be making selections from Latah when it's an OP and the original has been available forever as Tania also mentioned,same for Glenn.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #3
JLJ_
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 759
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
I know Latah quite well as one of the 5 varieties bred by Dr.Boe at the U of Idaho

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Latah

The only two I've grown myself when I was still growing early varieties were Sandpoint and Latah, and I disliked Sandpoint intensely,for taste,and told Glen Drowns about that since that's where I got the seeds from when he told me he went to Sandpoint HS and knew Dr.Boe .

Gulp.

Glenn made an offer of all of the ones Dr.Boe bred in his catalog/website a few years back.

Yes,they are all very early,and are pretty much all round reds.

Why would that person be making selections from Latah when it's an OP and the original has been available forever as Tania also mentioned,same for Glenn.

Carolyn
I'd seen Tania's page and others, some of which I mentioned, but still had questions, as mentioned.

Do you remember anything about Latah's growth habit or anything else in particular from when you grew it?

I do remember your mentioning Sandpoint here and there -- something along these lines -- in fact, that's what I think of when I see mention of Dr. Boe -- which is no doubt unfair to Boe's work. [g]

Latah is certainly an energetic variety -- and I have seen it mentioned by quite a few who liked it, but I thought of it as just another little bit better than average early variety -- it's clearly more unusual than that.

I've no special knowledge about the New Brunswick selection of Latah, but it doesn't seem particularly surprising that some northern grower would take a particularly vigorous early variety and work on selecting successive generations in hopes of getting an even earlier one and perhaps improving other traits. I got the impression that it may have been a successful, locally popular, effort, but didn't find a lot about it. There's a bit here

http://www.theorganicfarm.net/Outdoo...a-Agriview.pdf

and mention of the same person here and there -- has apparently done work with other crops to get varieties that grow well in northern areas where they've not grown well in the past.

Probably not a project that interests you, as you can grow so many varieties where you are, any year the weather halfway cooperates with you.

Last edited by JLJ_; April 24, 2016 at 11:56 PM.
JLJ_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25, 2016   #4
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,793
Default

Hi JLJ,
I know the folks that you linked to, and my farmer friends probably got Latah seed from them when they last grew it in 2011 - outdoors. It was a terrible year weather wise and the comment was they were not productive - not worth the space and effort. Bearing in mind we have a terrible climate for tomatoes and a bad year can be... really bad, even with a greenhouse. Taste of Latah was said to be ok, I'll ask about the growth habit and let you know.

I have some Latah seed in my stash and mean to trial it against other early reds when another year comes that is promising for outdoor earlies trial.

It's interesting you find them more vigorous than their cohort, I have seen the same with a couple of determinates and indeed this year V. Desyatku is the biggest seedling I have. I think the high vigour trait is something that breeders were looking for in a commercial plant.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25, 2016   #5
PNW_D
Tomatovillian™
 
PNW_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: West Coast, Canada
Posts: 960
Default

Grew this one way back in 2002 (original seed from John in Australia)

from my July 2 notes - the plant, grown in 5 gal. container, had reached almost 3 feet across and 2 feet in height (I recall not staked but allowed to sprawl on sidewalk). Taste notes indicate "not one to follow Black Prince in taste", but first to ripen (July 29) and last planted. Plants loaded with fruit - juicy, acidic and heading toward mushy on some occasions. More fruit than leaves, some splitting ..... lovely sauteed and sprinkled with Mizithra cheese
and a later undated note indicates at least 50 fruit remain on plant - all turning very red
__________________
D.
PNW_D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #6
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,793
Default

JLJ, my friend also tells me they were a two-foot tall plant. They used ground cover and didn't cage or stake, it wasn't necessary.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #7
JLJ_
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 759
Default

Thanks for the info PNW_D and bower!

I was kind of hoping that Canadians might know something about Greg Wingate's work with Latah and whether he's growing a selection that performs better than the original. Mine are from Sand Hill -- so presumably from the original stock. I've wondered about the Andy Pollack selection of John Baer, too -- whether it reliably performs better than the original, and if so, in what dimensions.

It's too early to have a real opinion about how Latah's performance compares here to other earlies -- but I've certainly been impressed by their speedy start. I'm hoping none of the array of possible tomato catastrophes befalls them before they show what they can do -- but even if that should happen, they've already earned a return try.

It sounds as if they would prefer to sprawl -- but I'm afraid they'd be vole-prey. Sophie's Choice has been so much happier here in the ground than in a container, but really doesn't like any sort of restriction limiting its inclination to be a round ball. I'd been thinking that perhaps I'd fix a little hardware cloth fenced area to keep the voles away from free growing ground planted Sophies -- and also try a container with a different mix or a straw bale for Sophie -- as I think she's safer off the ground, if I can give her root conditions she likes. Perhaps i should try the same for Latah.
JLJ_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #8
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,793
Default

JLJ - to test your theory about the 'selection' of Latah, you'd want to grow the two seed sources side by side. The seeds I have stashed are from the MMM, so source is unknown. But there are likely some seeds from that New Brunswick source still kicking around locally - if you don't have a source for them I could look into it and try to get you some for next year..

As regards the voles, I am still amazed that a bit of flapping row cover is enough to keep out squirrels, bunnies, and moose. After years of frustration watching the hares and squirrels burrow under, climb over, or squeeze their young through chicken wire and wood fencing, it's shocking to see them keep away from something not even properly closed. I'll be attaching row cover to all future fences.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #9
Tormato
Tomatovillian™
 
Tormato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 4,958
Default

Your MMMM source was likely me. Latah, I've found, is the quickest variety ready for transplant of all varieties I've trailed. It's ready in 23-24 days, where all others need at least 28 days. These transplants are judged by me to be just big enough to survive in somewhat harsh weather.

As for flavor, not much to report on. It could be the early season weather doesn't help with flavor. This year, I'll likely start Latah about 3 weeks later than hearts and beefsteak, so that Latah ripens about the same time as the mid-season ones.
Tormato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #10
JLJ_
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 759
Default

bower, I have no theory about the selection of Latah -- Greg Wingate's multiyear selection process was described in that pdf to which I linked above -- I just wondered whether anyone had compared it to Latah from other sources. Same thing with the Andy Pollock selection of John Baer -- though I do think that some had done that comparison some years back -- that's how I happen to have a note to watch for the Pollock selection, if I happen to see it around anywhere -- especially with anyone who had been growing and maintaining its quality. There was someone at Tomatoville a few years back who was doing that, I believe, but may have given up the project -- or may just not be around in recent years.

I have mixed feelings about selecting for early development, anyway. It's a good thing for short season areas, but I've tried enough early ones that I regarded as a waste of space that early is only interesting if there's some indication that whoever did the selection also selected for quality, and that the effort has been continued. On the other hand, the poor quality of so many earlies keeps the bar low for those few better earlies . . . and if a tomato really does mature early all they have to do to gain favor is to be better than modern grocery store tomatoes, as when they appear, they have little tomato competition.

Tormato, it's interesting that you also noticed that Latah was an unusually quick starter. Re midsummer flavor -- does it not keep producing through your season, even if it begins early (compared to other varieties)?

bower -- I think your squirrels, bunnies, voles and moose must be more timid than ours. Our voles and bunnies don't hesitate to come into enclosures inhabited by an active Malamute -- and a neighbor has horses that get loose because passing moose ignore flapping, rattling and other noisy things and hop into his horse enclosure -- apparently for the salt -- causing the horses to immediately sign over title to the place to friend moose, and go over the fence and away in search of mooseless quarters.

Your experience makes me think of mine with deer, though, where a variety of fence, noise, and motion detecting water squirters deter deer effectively . . . lulling me into a sense of security . . . until some deer comes along, snickers at its timid conspecifics, bounces over the fence and eats everything in sight.

Hopefully, your wildlife won't include any such adventurous individuals.
JLJ_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29, 2016   #11
Tormato
Tomatovillian™
 
Tormato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 4,958
Default

JLJ,

I have no idea if it keeps producing late into the year. Once the beefsteaks and hearts start ripening, Latah gets completely ignored, or ripped out. I've read that it's a determinate, a semi-determinate, and an indeterminate. My guess, for now, is a det or semi-det. This year I'll likely keep an eye on it for the whole season.
Tormato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2022 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★