"Triplemix" added to garden...supposedly

[Anthony_Toronto]

Ordered 10 yards of triplemix to top up garden, dirt looked ok (but not great) when it was moist, had an aroma of manure of some sort. Now that its in it looks really dry with a lot more larger bits than I would have expected, and the bits just look like plain old crappy dead dirt. After I water the water seems to sit on the surface...and after it absorbs the soil seems to dry out awfully fast. It took a long time for very small seedlings (or carrot and onion seeds that I sowed) to do anything at all, and the small kale seedlings I planted all died. I noticed when I watered, even with the soaker, that there was a residue (brownish/whitish) left when the wet spots dried. Tomato plants had roots deep enough to be sitting on dirt taken from composter I think. More shallowly planted seedlings took a little more time and watering to develop. Most or all of the tomato plants have flowers now. But just wondering what, in new/inconsistent soil, might have led to delay in germination (aside from moisture issues) and tiny seedlings not making it? Could there be too much nitrogen or something else in the soil?

[Anthony_Toronto]

When I got home today I also notice that the top sets of leaves and branches on all plants are really curled up (almost looks like herbicide damage or cucumber mosaic), same with the pea plants in another portion of the garden. Watered the heck out of it last night and it was dry as a bone two inches down by tonight.

[beeman]

You seem to have a problem similar to mine from some years ago.
I went to the local landfill, they take in green stuff for composting and form large windrows, selling 'Compost' a year later. You can by a pick up truck load for $20, which they will load for you. I found it to be dry, hard to get wet, and very little grew in it, even grass seed had a problem, as I used it to fill some low spots in the lawn.
In the end I did a major tilling job, adding loads of well rotted sawdust from the local mill in an attempt to minimise the problem.
I have since discovered that local nurseries are loading up on this stuff, mixing in with some top soil and calling it Triple mix. Perhaps your herbicide damage is not so far out, especially if the compost department had accepted stuff with herbicide in it, composting doesn't get rid of it.
Perhaps you should have a word with the supplier and tell them your problem, perhaps get your money back.

[Anthony_Toronto]

I might have to pay the garden centre a visit tomorrow. I'm actually a little concerned that it was never tilled/ground enough in the first place (and the larger pieces came to the top as I was spreading/raking), and that it otherwise might be a little high in nitrogen given some of what I'm seeing. Potatoes are actually growing well as are tomato plants, aside from the leaf curl. lettuce doing well too, as is cabbage. Small seedings not so much, pepper plants not budging, kale not growing, eggplants not growing, squash stunted, cucumbers largely bit the dust, onion seedlings doing nothing, onion and carrot seeds slow as molasses, and baby kale that I sprouted from seed just died one by one after not growing a millimetre. We will see what I can come up with...and as for tomatoes there are not very many flowers on them despite being 2 or so feet tall on average now.

[tomatoguy]

Perhaps it is contaminated with Black Walnut leaves?

[Anthony_Toronto]

It looks similar to this

http://mr-tomato-king.blogspot.ca/20...-tomatoes.html

But plants are all doing well in general, lettuce, potatoes, basil not affected, that plus lack of as many flowers as normal makes me think the 'triplemix' I got had too much nitrogen or some sort of imbalance. Also notices some of the plants had a bit of purple, maybe not enough phosphorus also. Keeping my eye on them...

[AaronRiot]

I'm a bit east of the city and there are a fair number of landscape centers out here that sell excellent compost by the yd. Where'd you get the triple mix from, exactly?

I tend to ammend with straight compost... but what works well for me may not for others...

[Anthony_Toronto]

Meadow Valley Garden Centre. I'm really annoyed at this point. Soil gets dry and crumbly on top, doesn't seem to be holding much water on the edges of the beds, but the settled portions are hard and packed and difficult to dig in. It didn't seem like this when it was dumped in the driveway, but it was a little damp and it rained after so it was hard to tell. All I know is it is not like any triplemix I've ever got before. It had an aroma of manure when it came but not really any signs of peat or similar matter.

Pepper plants are doing nothing, some are yellowing and leaves are falling off.

Pea plants looked great when I put them in, but then the growth stunted, the leaves curled, and some have grown to almost 2 feet tall now but don't look healthy and not a single flower on 20 plants. There are no pests on the plants. Looks kind of like this:

http://www7.inra.fr/hyp3/images/6034231.jpg

Tomatoes still have lots of leaf roll but seem to be improving/leaves seem to be opening and growing, but very few flowers compared to normal and flowers are extremely slow to open. Plants do not look like they have excessive nitrogen, they are not growing that well, but also don't look like they have mosaic virus.

It could be herbicide damage, but if so its only affecting the tomatoes and peas from what I can see. In fact it looks an awful lot like aminopyralid damage...if so then the garden centre will have some explaining to do but my guess is they won't take any responsibility for anything.

At this point its probably just a waiting game. Lettuce looks great, almost time to harvest Boston heads. Cabbages, potato plants growing well. I've been too busy to deal with the garden centre but will see how things go in next week or two and deal with them if necessary.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Anthony_Toronto

At this point its probably just a waiting game. Lettuce looks great, almost time to harvest Boston heads. Cabbages, potato plants growing well. I've been too busy to deal with the garden centre but will see how things go in next week or two and deal with them if necessary.

As I have said previously, it would seem you have a great deal of 'landfill compost'. That stuff has all sorts of rubbish included.
If you think of the garden waste collection, then compost it, then sell it to locale garden suppliers, mix in green manure from a local farm, plus a 'bit' of top soil, that's Triple Mix. That's what you bought. They have your money and that's all that all they are concerned with. When I complained to my supplier, he shrugged his shoulders and walked away. I don't visit there any more.
The stuff I bought, same as you have wouldn't even grow grass, as I used it to fill low spots in the lawn.
The only advice, try a local saw mill, if you have one. Ask if they have well rotted saw dust, the add 3-4 inches and till it in. That's the only thing that worked for me.

[Anthony_Toronto]

If it is contaminated I'm just not sure why some veggies are doing fine and others are not. Some of the dirt spilled over the side of my driveway onto my lawn, I took up some of it but left the rest there as topdressing. Usually when I leave triplemix on the lawn the lawn grows right through it and the triplemix eventually settles or spreads itself into the area, but this time it killed the grass completely, tried raking it to see if the dirt needed loosening and there was simply no grass left under it.

But other than tomatoes and peas nothing looks damaged, and if it was aminopyralid I believe it would have hit the potato plants too, and they are growing out of control. I did lay black plastic on the ground around the tomatoes and at first I thought the newfound heat might have stressed the plants out a little. But peas are in a different area of the garden altogether. If it was just excess nitrogen I would have expected the pea plants to look lush but they don't, at all. If it was herbicide I would have expected more damage. Could have just been some drifting of something from a neighbour I suppose, but given the other issues that appear to be tied to the dirt in both parts of the garden and on the grass beside my driveway I might be in trouble.

[Anthony_Toronto]

Upon further research it sure appears that the damage I am seeing on the tomatoes and pea plants is herbicide damage. All new growth seems to be getting hit, though leaves that were formed before I transplanted into the garden are fine. Even new suckers coming from healthy areas of the plant are showing damage. I'm assuming this means that the herbicides are indeed in the 'soil' that I purchased, and not airborne, unless someone has been spraying repeatedly. Many of the plants seem to be doing ok and much of the curled foliage seems to be doing ok, but some plants look pretty bad, almost like they have cucumber mosaic. Eggplants, cucumbers, potatoes not affected. Only tomatoes and peas.

[LindyAdele]

Hi Anthony! I think I have a similar problem to you. I bought three yards oftriple mix this spring to fill my new raised beds, and while my tomatoes are growing well, the are growing twisted stems and deformed leaves. There is no discolouring to yellow, however, no mottling, just weird foliage. I have a dozen tomwtoes growing already, (I am in London, ON and planted out three weeks ago) so this is actually an early year for me. My peas are not doing well, and I can't get green beans to germinate! Three plantings now, and I have three leafless deformed bean stems! :-( I figured if it was cmv, my cucumbers would also be affected, or squash. But they seem totally fine!
Do you think the issue will go away in another year? I am nervous about buying manure compost next year, and worried my whole crop will be deformed! I just wanted you to know I think you might be right, I am having a bad experience with the triple mix I bought too!

[beeman]

Triple mix is a mix of Municipal Compost, Manure and Top soil, supposed to be equal amounts, hence the name 'triple mix'.
Knowing the municipal compost collection and methods of 'manufacture' I believe that's where the problem starts. When I tried the 'compost' the foreign bodies were unbelievable, lots of plastic and metal junk.
Untouched, it will take a number of years to 'self correct'. I took the upper hand and mixed in large quantities of well rotted sawdust, which I tilled in, even then it took a while for the vines to correctly grow again.
You could knowing all this, amend a portion, then grow only those plants affected by the 'herbicide'.
Good luck, unfortunately you're going to need it.

[LindyAdele]

The "Triple Mix" I ordered was supposed to be "Rich Topsoil, Manure Compost and Sandy Loam" It was supposed to be ideal for helping clay soil, and vegetable gardening. There are bits of plastic all through it, which leads me to believe that there was municipal compost in there as well. Does anyone know where I could get sawdust to rot? Or well-rotted sawdust? (that isn't treated wood!) How does this help the situation from a science perspective (because I am really curious!). Does the dirt just need to be diluted?

[Anthony_Toronto]

One link that I found suggested looking at other plants that were impacted in order to determine what herbicide it might be, but then gave no guidance on what to look for. Lettuce, potato, cucumber, squash, eggplant, peppers, cabbage do not seem to be impacted (*though the eggplants are growing so slowly that I have not seen many new leaves emerge despite being in the ground for well over three weeks now). Its only peas and tomatoes. Existing growth on tomatoes is fine, new growth is deformed, though much of the deformed growth seems to be looking ok after growing out (not normal, but not too bad), with 100% of tomato plants impacted, some much worse than others...black cherry looks like it has cucumber mosaic. If anyone knows of/finds a link that might allow me to identify exactly which herbicide it is from the plants that are impacted (so I can focus on a solution) I would greatly appreciate it.