Abe Lincoln /Abraham Lincoln the same ?

[chiefbeaz]

Are Abe and Abraham Lincoln the same tomato? I haven't found a clear answer for this.

[AlittleSalt]

Besides all the usual results for Abe Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln tomato - I found this Hybrid http://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?pID=00010&c=42

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by chiefbeaz

Are Abe and Abraham Lincoln the same tomato? I haven't found a clear answer for this.

First,I think you meant to type Abe Lincoln since I know of no variety just called Abe.

What I can tell you is that for several decades Abe Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln have been considered to be the same.

I can't give you links unless you want to do some Googling, but here are the ones listed in my 2015 SSE Yearbook and reading them quickly they all sound the same, as I thought they would be.

Abe Lincoln
Abe Lincoln Improved
Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln Buckbee
Abraham Lincoln Oringal
Abraham Lincoln Regular

I'm sure you know that Buckbees first bred Abraham Lincoln and here's Tania's page on that

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln

And see the related, aka almost the same ones there that I listed above, which isn't a surprise since Tania gets a lot of her data from the SSE YEarbooks where she also lists varieties.

In the history you'll see some comments about bronze tinted foliage is what Buckee got, and I can't tell you how many threads there have been about that, lots here at Tville I'm sure, but only ONE person thought he saw some bronze foliage, his name is not in Tania's history but it's Howard Essl.

He thought he saw it once, but never again.

Historically no doubt an interesting variety, and I've grown it, probably the one Craig got out of the PC GRIN noted in the link above, but as a great variety nope, several hundreds of medium sized red ones would come before it as for my preferences.

Carolyn

,

[chiefbeaz]

Carolyn, thanks for the information. I looked up Abe Lincoln on Tanian's site and she stated that Abraham Lincoln is a different tomato. That is why I asked the question on TV.

Thanks

[Ricky Shaw]

Adding to the intrigue, this piece by William Woys Weaver. Good article, but I was more caught up trying to say his name real fast, over and over.

'Abraham Lincoln' Tomatoes.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organ...z08amzmcc.aspx

"Today, there are two strains of ‘Abraham Lincoln’ tomatoes. The original 1923 strain is considered a late-season tomato, maturing in 87 to 90 days."

And more....

"Another strain of ‘Abraham Lincoln’ tomatoes, which is offered by Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, was introduced around 1975 as a more mid-season tomato that matures about two weeks earlier. This strain does not have the distinctive bronzy green leaves of the original, but it is identical in all other respects, even the same flavorful dark red fruit."

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by chiefbeaz

Carolyn, thanks for the information. I looked up Abe Lincoln on Tanian's site and she stated that Abraham Lincoln is a different tomato. That is why I asked the question on TV.

Thanks

I reviewed Tania's page and nowhere did I see that she said that Abe Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln were two different tomato varieties.

She listed the same ones I did from my SSE Yearbook and said nothing more than the word related, which is true.

I'm sorry but there is no way that I can give you the info and descriptions for what was SSE listed.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln

Ricky, I know Will Weaver very well and for reasons I won't go into in depth I don't believe most of what he writes, and that started back when he wrote his book about Heirloom varieties which was filled with LOTS of wrong information from squash to tomatoes and beyond. And yes, I've met him, he wanted Craig L and myself to collaborate with him and we both refused but he went ahead anyway and thus all the very wrong info in the tomato section, for example/

He used to write for some SSE publications as well as the Baker Creek magazine, but no more, and has SSE listed in the past more wrong varieties in the SSE YEarbooks than you can believe and I should know since he got many of his varieties from me.

Interesting. I just checked my 2015 SSE YEarbook and he's no longer a listed member.

Carolyn

[chiefbeaz]

KY ST M
6-12 oz round, red, a good canner, introduced by the Buckbee Seed Co. in 1923, not the same variety as Abraham Lincoln.

This is what I found if you look up Abe Lincoln instead of Abraham Lincoln on Tanian's web site.

[chiefbeaz]

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Abe_Lincoln

Forgot to put in this link for you.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by chiefbeaz

KY ST M
6-12 oz round, red, a good canner, introduced by the Buckbee Seed Co. in 1923, not the same variety as Abraham Lincoln.

This is what I found if you look up Abe Lincoln instead of Abraham Lincoln on Tanian's web site.

What you refer to is this, which I just double checked;

6-12 oz round, red, a good canner, introduced by the Buckbee Seed Co. in 1923, not the same variety as Abraham Lincoln.
Seed source:
?
Year grown:
Location: Sonora, Kentucky

It is the opinion of one person, the SSE code is used, no seed source given, etc., and anyone can have their own opinion about varieties, but I wouldn't rely on the opinion of just one person if it were me. And not Tania's opinion at all.

I looked up that person's SSE code in my 2015 SSE Yearbook and no longer an SSE listed member.

Carolyn

[chiefbeaz]

OK, not trying to get into a argument over a tomato. The reason I asked about the tomato was because of the different things I read about it. I know as a former Fire Chief that you can't believe half of what you read in a newspaper . If the average person was to look up Abe Lincoln on Tanian's site, they would have to believe that Abe Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln were two different tomato's. You said they were all the same, so that's what I am going with, unless Mr Buckbee tells me different. Hopefully it will be a few years before I talk to him.

[IronPete]

And not Tania's opinion at all.



Carolyn[/QUOTE]

??? Did I read that correctly???

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

What you refer to is this, which I just double checked;

6-12 oz round, red, a good canner, introduced by the Buckbee Seed Co. in 1923, not the same variety as Abraham Lincoln.
Seed source:
?
Year grown:
Location: Sonora, Kentucky

It is the opinion of one person, the SSE code is used, no seed source given, etc., and anyone can have their own opinion about varieties, but I wouldn't rely on the opinion of just one person if it were me. And not Tania's opinion at all.

I looked up that person's SSE code in my 2015 SSE Yearbook and no longer an SSE listed member.

Carolyn

Someone just Pmed me about that so let me clarify again.

It was the opinion of one person, NOT Tania, that Abe Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln were not the same.

Again, Tania made no comment at ALL about whether Abe L and Abraham L were the same or different, only the person from KY did so.

Carolyn

[IronPete]

Thanks for clarifying.

[chiefbeaz]

Iron Pete, I think that what Carolyn was saying was that KY ST M opinion on the tomato wasn't Tania's opinion. I guess we will find out shortly. Everyone stay tuned!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I posted this after Carolyn has replyed

[seaeagle]

If you read this page at Victory Seeds, you will probably come to the same conclusion as they did.

The original Buckbee Abraham Lincoln tomato may not exist anymore. Cleaned up as the result of a "major rebreeding project" means to me lost seeds, crossed seeds, or mixed up seeds.Why else would you change a popular heirloom?Just my opinion

http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_abraham-lincoln.html