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A garden is only as good as the ground that it's planted in. Discussion forum for the many ways to improve the soil where we plant our gardens.

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Old November 5, 2016   #1
Kazedwards
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Default New Property, New Garden

New property, new garden

At the end of September my wife and I closed on 3 1/2 acres a little east of where we are now. We will be building a home and should be moving in around June or July. So now I have been thinking of the new property and what I should do. I think I would like to stick with no till. I would like it to be several small gardens spread out rather than one big one. The soil already seems to be better than I already too. Next year I don't plan on having a huge garden but working towards it every year. I was thinking maybe a few hugelkultur beds. Any other thoughts?

I am also starting to think about fruit trees too. I want to have a Pawpaw, apple, peach and maybe a cherry tree. A couple of each. When is the best time to plant them? Also any specific varieties a should look for?
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Old November 5, 2016   #2
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We are also planning on putting in berms with landscaping and trees on the edge for privacy. The property has a gentle slope and dips in one corner.

Also here are a few pictures
It is hard to see but there is a stake with orange paint. Behind that is a small tree which is the far property line catty corner from where I took it.

In this pic you can see a green electrical box at the right by the street. That is the other corner.


This last picture is the soil test for the septic.
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Last edited by Kazedwards; November 5, 2016 at 10:56 PM.
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Old November 5, 2016   #3
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Plant the trees in the winter very early spring I have no recommendations on the verity as I dont know what your chill hours are.

That will be a deciding factor.
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Old November 5, 2016   #4
Kazedwards
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Plant the trees in the winter very early spring I have no recommendations on the verity as I dont know what your chill hours are.

That will be a deciding factor.


I'm in 6a almost 6b right outside Kansas City, Missouri. We get a lot of thaws throughout the winter. I thinking starting the small orchard next fall.

Thanks for the fast response Worth!


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Old November 5, 2016   #5
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Are you part of the neighborhood with the big houses? Congrats if so. I only ask to make sure there is no HOA agreement in place to which you are subject. Some people consider gardens to be eyesores.

I think peaches take the most work to grow, especially frequent spraying. My grandpa had an orchard for many years. My favorite variety is JH Hale, a very old variety and one of the very few that require multiple trees to pollinate each other. Georgia Bell is another old variety my grandpa grew. They are a white peach that bruises if you give them a dirty look, but they are famous for flavor.

Apples take a little spraying if you want them to look nice. We never had much luck with sweet cherry trees. They like it farther north. Pie cherries, on the other hand, will grow like a wild tree. I've never grown pawpaws, but pears are the other low-maintenance fruit trees. Both the old-fashioned Kiefer pear and the Asian pear-apple grow very well.

Blackberries and blueberries are also fairly easy to grow. You'll probably amend your soil with lime for the blueberries first. My family grows a lot of blackberries. They are labor-intensive to prune in the early spring and also to pick if you have too many. The thorny ones are sweeter. I think it's the same as what grows wild. The birds have planted a large patch in my backyard for me.

If that hole is representative of the rest of your property, you have three times as much topsoil as me, and it looks very dark and rich. I would think whatever you plant will do well.
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Old November 5, 2016   #6
Kazedwards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie View Post
Are you part of the neighborhood with the big houses? Congrats if so. I only ask to make sure there is no HOA agreement in place to which you are subject. Some people consider gardens to be eyesores.

I think peaches take the most work to grow, especially frequent spraying. My grandpa had an orchard for many years. My favorite variety is JH Hale, a very old variety and one of the very few that require multiple trees to pollinate each other. Georgia Bell is another old variety my grandpa grew. They are a white peach that bruises if you give them a dirty look, but they are famous for flavor.

Apples take a little spraying if you want them to look nice. We never had much luck with sweet cherry trees. They like it farther north. Pie cherries, on the other hand, will grow like a wild tree. I've never grown pawpaws, but pears are the other low-maintenance fruit trees. Both the old-fashioned Kiefer pear and the Asian pear-apple grow very well.

Blackberries and blueberries are also fairly easy to grow. You'll probably amend your soil with lime for the blueberries first. My family grows a lot of blackberries. They are labor-intensive to prune in the early spring and also to pick if you have too many. The thorny ones are sweeter. I think it's the same as what grows wild. The birds have planted a large patch in my backyard for me.

If that hole is representative of the rest of your property, you have three times as much topsoil as me, and it looks very dark and rich. I would think whatever you plant will do well.


Thank you for the compliment on the soil. I agree it looks great! What I have now is solid clay and a pain in the but to work with.

It is part of a neighborhood with a very lax HOA. There are no HOA fees either. We can even have chickens and are planning on them in the future too. Several of the neighborhoods have gardens. One of the reasons we chose the lot we did.

Thanks for the recommendations for the fruit trees. I would like a few of each but all different varieties. Maybe just one Pawpaw though as I have never tried one. They are supposedly native to Missouri but I can't seem to find any to try. I'm fairly certain hey self pollinate.

I plan on blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries but they will be a little farther down the road. Maybe some grapes too.

Geez 3 1/2 acres might not be now that I read it all. Lol.
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Old November 5, 2016   #7
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Here is a picture of the lot with where the house will sit. The blue line is the property line. To the right is a sign for the neighborhood.



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Old November 6, 2016   #8
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I am green with envy. Wow! The fruit trees I have are mandatory for no chill hours. I did have over 400 mangoes this year, yes tons of starfruit, and 5 pineapples, but no apples ,stone fruit, blue or blackberries ever. 3&1/2 acres, fabulous. All with soil you can actually plant things in without nematodes.
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Old November 6, 2016   #9
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Congratulations on your new location Kazedwards. It looks wonderful.


"amend your soil with lime for the blueberries"

Really? It surprised me to read that.

Last edited by GrowingCoastal; November 6, 2016 at 11:06 AM. Reason: memory
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Old November 6, 2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingCoastal View Post
Congratulations on your new location Kazedwards. It looks wonderful.


"amend your soil with lime for the blueberries"

Really? It surprised me to read that.

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading up on blueberries yesterday..
(Rodales Organic Gardening)
Add peat and/or oak leaves to amend the soil, never lime.
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Old November 6, 2016   #11
pmcgrady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazedwards View Post
I'm in 6a almost 6b right outside Kansas City, Missouri. We get a lot of thaws throughout the winter. I thinking starting the small orchard next fall.

Thanks for the fast response Worth!


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I've had good luck with fruit trees from Stark Brothers Nursery and they are located in Missouri. You might be able to buy directly from the nursery, thus saving shipping costs. Norse Farms is also a great place to buy from.
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Old November 6, 2016   #12
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Sorry. I meant sulphur, not lime, for the blueberries.
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Old November 6, 2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcgrady View Post
I've had good luck with fruit trees from Stark Brothers Nursery and they are located in Missouri. You might be able to buy directly from the nursery, thus saving shipping costs. Norse Farms is also a great place to buy from.
Stark also has a list of fruit that will grow in your area.
All you do is type in your zip code and all of the apples or what ever will come up and the pollinator needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie View Post
Sorry. I meant sulphur, not lime, for the blueberries.
It is the word lime that confuses people and the term sweeten soil.
Lime fruit sour acidic, Lime stone basic or alkali.

If it were me I would add copious amounts of peat to the soil to help acidify it if needed.
It would also help to loosen the soil.
But we all do things differently.
When I lived in southern Mo we didn't do anything to the soil and grew fantastic blueberries.
Too stupid to know better.
Southern Mo is nothing but limestone.
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Old November 6, 2016   #14
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Cole, you can edit your post if you want.
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Old November 6, 2016   #15
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Nah, learning experience. I just had it in my head that lime was acidic. Worth made a good point. I was probably thinking of lime juice. If you added enough of that, I bet blueberries would grow well
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