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Old February 23, 2009   #61
johnsonjrbm
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Originally Posted by disneynut1977 View Post
Thanks Carolyn.What do you think the white mikado actually is? I ended up getting it from somebody else listing it under white brandywine AKA white mikado since she ran out.

I'm glad Togorific is listed at a few other places. I thought they looked so cute, hopefully they will come true to seed.


Melissa1977
Melissa - Just for grins and giggles, I ordered some "Shah Mikado" from Gourmet Seeds, which claims (or claimed) William Woys Weaver as the source. IIRC, that's the same reference that Amishland used.

I had planned to grow it out last year and compare it to White Potato Leaf from Sand Hill Preservation, but a family illness kept me from starting any maters last year. (I had to buy starts). If you're interested, I can look around this week to see if I have enough after trades to supply you with some of both.

I had ordered from Amishland in 2005 before I discovered T'ville. Seed germination was erratic, and my Silvery Fir Tree tomato did not appear true to type. Lettuce I had purchased from her had zero germination, while lettuce from another source started at the same time was fine.

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Old February 23, 2009   #62
disneynut1977
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Bobby, thank you so much. That's very nice of you to offer. I think for this year, I'm fine though. I have some of the white mikado/white brandywine already. I don't know what will come up, since I just bought it.

I'm still having a hard time settling on my grow list for 2009 without any extra's

I have so many cherry types that I really wanted to try, so I have been on and off considering just doing all my cherries this year and finding out which are my favorites to keep. I just can't be temped by any other tomatoes right now.

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Old February 23, 2009   #63
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Shah/White Mikado is probably just a renaming of Potato Leaf White.

If you look back at the Henderson seed catalog of 1890 or so, they were the ones who released Shah as a large golden variant of their Mikado. So if Shah is similar to anything we grow today, it would look like Aunt Gertie's Gold/Yellow Brandywine/Elbe (the three are similar in being light orange potato leaf large fruited varieties).

However, Shah was only offered for a few years and disappeared from catalogs before 1900. It is likely that they had something unstable (just a cross of their large pink Mikado, possibly).
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Old February 25, 2009   #64
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Camo, I ordered Lancaster County Pink in 2007 from Amishland Seeds. Isn't it supposed to be potato leaf? All mine sprouted regular leaf. I didn't grow them out far enough to find whether they were red, pink, yellow or dirt brown.
Travis,
I grew Lancaster County Pink this past season and it was a great tasting pink tomato. I'm almost 100% sure it was P.L. although I have nothing noting that in my journal. Most all my tomatoes are potato leafed as they seem to do better for me. I think I would have noted if it wasn't.
It was a top twelve tomato tastewise. As were her Glick's Brandywine,Gigantesque,Amazon Chocolate, Black Brandywine, Sudduths Brandywine, and her Tiffen Mennonite, Ballad, and Amish Rose weren't far behind. These seeds were all bought end of 2007-beginning 2008. I had no complaints with them at all.
There do seem to be many warnings as to marketing practices though!
Camo
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Old February 25, 2009   #65
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I had ordered Togo from her and grew it last year. It was an awesome tomato that I plan to grow this year, too! I'm concerned that her Togoriffic and Ceylon appear almost identical to Togo. For the most part I've been happy with my purchases from Amishland, but the product hype was definately misleading. I won't order from her again after reading this thread and some other guidance from Carolyn. Integrity, in my perspective, is everything! Thank you, Forum members and fellow gardeners, for your integrity and friendship, and sharing of this wonderful mission and hobby!!!
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Old February 25, 2009   #66
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Every time I see this thread title, I think it should read "Amishland still at it". Now, don't get me wrong. People got to make a living. But too many vendors out there are bending the facts and making up the story. Sorry, that's not my cup of tea.

Everything is overpriced, over-advertised, and seemingly overtly twisted factually. There are too many superlatives and not enough facts. I agree with Gardenfrog that INTEGRITY is what it's all about.

Can I recommend Sandhill instead. I went through their list and found more than 150 varieties that would produce fruit weighing at least 6 ounces or more. And you can count on the seeds producing the "factually" described plant.

Let me grow that plant and then I'll add the superlatives.

Still delivering "babies" - Ted
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Old March 4, 2009   #67
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I don’t think any company, business, organization, or individual should use the words Amish, Mennonite or any other group such as this.

To do so is implying that you are a member of said group and implies honesty and integrity.
It also implies that in some way the product is produced by these people. I have talked to some folks that have found cheap junk furniture sold under the pretence that it was made by the Amish.

This sort of practice disturbs me as I am in acquaintance with the Mennonite leader and his wife here in Bastrop.
They are good folks that don’t push their views on anybody and stay to their selves.
They too own a furniture store and sell the real thing.

Every time I see this thread I get ticked off not that it is here but just because it is a reminder that some folks are riding on the coat tails of others to get ahead or more business.

This sort of practice abhors me to no end.

Now I think I will go buy some sheet rock and take my rage out on some good honest work.

Worth
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Old April 12, 2012   #68
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Well - darn. sigh. Sure didn't see this thread until AFTER I just ordered 4 sets of seeds from A-land. Oh well. Hopefully they'll be good if not at least up to the hype in the marketing for them. Newbie has to learn her lesson the hard was I suppose. Is there a "blacklist" somewhere that newbies can easily find (or that I somehow missed)?
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Old April 12, 2012   #69
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Babice you can google daves garden watchdog review and they rate seed sellers
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Old April 12, 2012   #70
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Babice, I ordered from her last Fall as well, right before I joined this site. So don't feel bad.

I loved her website. It was so quaint and the stories about the varieties seemed so interesting! Now that I have read about the name changes and found other sites that have equally interesting varieties (with correct histories) for much better prices, I will probably use those instead.

Your seeds will probably be fine. Except for the Ratnayake eggplant (only got one plant) and the doorknob pepper, ( just two) all of mine germinated fine and appear to be doing very well. (And in fairness, I had a few problems with some of my first seeds this year because of trouble regulating the moisture on my new seed starting mix.)

I have to admit that I'm a bit infatuated with my Kibit's Ukrainian tomatoes from her. Started three of them last November for the greenhouse, but they kind of stalled over the Winter. Now two of them are 18"-24" tall and covered with cute, little, long, lumpy, Roma shaped tomatoes.

There are over thirty tomatoes on two small plants with over twenty more flowers ready to set. In addition, it looks like there will be ten to twelve flowers on each new side branch that is forming. Haven't tasted one yet, but if they are any good, this one may be a keeper!

It's small enough for a container so that it could come inside during excessive heat or cold, and she claims that it will keep putting out tomatoes until the Fall. If that is true and it has a decent taste, this one will make the regrow list.
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Old April 12, 2012   #71
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Babice, I ordered from her last Fall as well, right before I joined this site. So don't feel bad.
Thanks so much! My first concern is that I won't get the seeds in time to be able to grow them this season. I woulda bought these from those other sites I see listed here that are so fantastic. But, whatcha gonna do? I suppose if I don't get them in time I can stick them in my fridge and use them next year. After that, I wouldn't be too happy if they don't live up to their marketing hype but, really, I'd be less happy if none of them germinate. But this is a risk you take with any seeds you buy, right? So, I'm just dealing with the fact that I may not get them in time to use them this year.
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Old April 13, 2012   #72
jennifer28
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Well Babice
the main concern that people have with Lisa (Amishland Seed's owner) is that they say she changes the names of varieties and that she exaggerates the "rarity" of the variety.

I have thought about this, and the thing is I don't like to be too harsh toward anyone (especially a woman who works really hard to have her own business, I actually very much admire that and I think more women should be encouraged to have their own businesses). Before I became a teacher I was the director of an Info Tech Department at a Fortune 500 company, and I had 50 people reporting to me who all happened to be men, and I sometimes found myself in a position where I had to prove my business/analytical/programming skills. It gets old really fast. I just think more women should be encouraged in Science and Technology, and to really be self sufficient. So that's where I am coming from with my opinions on Amishland Seeds.

Getting back to whether or not you will get good products from Lisa,
I have purchased seeds from her and I haven't had germination problems with the seed. I think if you DO have a poor germination rate, you should email Lisa and tell her and ask her to refund your money or send a replacement. I also think if you are worried about the seeds not arriving on time you can always email her about them.

Dr. Carolyn made a really good point to me earlier in this long thread, which is that it is not good for many many reasons to mis-label or change the names of established heirloom varieties. So I would say that if you do buy seeds from anywhere, not just Amishland - if the variety seems made up or you aren't sure what it is then it isn't a good idea to pass them around and call them something they are not, because then it will mess up what the original heirloom was supposed to be, and then to get the correct tomato back into circulation is a chore, to put it mildly.
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Old April 13, 2012   #73
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Dr. Carolyn made a really good point to me

*****

Carolyn did, not Dr. Carolyn, the tomato variety.

Just saying that ever since I went online at message sites, which was in about the mid 80's I've always signed off as Carolyn; there was my professional life and then my private life.

I'm sure that in one of the posts above I noted that Lisa was invited to come to GW and defend her position. She came and also said that yes, she had changed names of varieties and yes, she had said this or that was rare/exclusive when it wasn't.

And finally said YES, she did it to increase sales.

For a year or so after that she was pretty good, but then went right back to her old ways.

I will not interact, nor suggest a website where I know the person does not have integrity, and she doesn't. And she certinly does not want to hear from Craig L or myself again since we tried so hard to correct her errors, many times, but it's useless.

Last I looked she was offering Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf and twisted and misrepresented the blurbs on both of them. And I had gotten them from Doug in MN who posts here and introduced both of them after we named them.

She can find out the backgrounds of tomato varieties in the same way that many of us do now, by going to Tania's site or Googling a variety and also in the SSE YEarbooks, for those two, as far as that goes.

But when she once said she was an SSE member, I kinda checked on that, and she wasn't, but that was several years ago. No matter, she was not telling the truth at the time.

And I'll add that there have been lots and lots of folks who have had problems getting seeds from her after they've paid and well I remember one person who had lousy germination with a couple of varieties and Lisa sent her the same seeds again. That was that for that person.

Of all the websites I know online, which is quite a few, I can't think of any that I think twist info to increase sales. OK, overhyping varieties is one thing, lack of info about a variety is another thing, but DELIBERATELY doing what Lisa does is yet another thing, and the major issue for me and many others.

I've often wondered if she lurks here and there at some websites from time to time, but of course have no way of knowing that and if she has it hasn't meant any changes in her blurbs OR PR when she reads the complaints about her website.
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Old April 13, 2012   #74
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While I haven't ordered any seeds from Lisa at Amishland since, Oh, it must have been around 2007, the fact is, many of my favorite varieties came from her.
They include such as: Amazon Chocolate, Lancaster County Pink, Gigantesque, and what has been proving itself to be a great Brandywine, Brandywine-Glicks. The past couple years, BW-Glicks has even surpassed my Cowlick-BW.
I have yet to find another tomato like Amazon Chocolate, anywhere, and I've grown almost every dark/black tomato over the past 5-6 years that I could find.
Many years, Lancaster County Pink has been one of if not the first, slicer to ripen. nothing similar comes close.
BW-Glicks always ripens before BW-sudduths or just plain BW/Pink BW, although it has never beaten Cowlicks-BW (original P.L.) or Jon's BW-Cowlicks R.L. which usually ripens about 1 week earlier.
That said in defence, I also must point out with my early orders, and with orders over the years by friends dealing with her, there's always been delays in receiving orders. Whether its the flu, (as it was in my case), or a death in the family, or a horrible cold, or the inability to keep up with the deluge of orders, being only one person, etc. It usually takes an extrordinary amount of time and communications before one's order finally arrives.
What I don't understand is why the name changing issue is so important here and yet others that try to change names of certain varieties, get rave reviews and support.
Not trying to ruffle any feathers, just trying to express some facts as I see them. After all, while I have my Cowlicks-BW, I'd hate to be without BW-Glicks. I have Dana's Dusky Rose and Bear Creek as dark/black favorites, but would surely miss the larger Amazon Chocolate. My favorite red tomato is Tarasenko6 but Gigantesque is right behind it. I can't count how many times Lancaster County Pink has been the first slicer to ripen.
So there are pluses and minuses, but don't we have that with most businesses.
Enjoy!
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Old April 13, 2012   #75
travis
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The way I look at it is this: Lisa has seeds for tomatoes that I might like to grow, regardless of what she calls them, what they really are, or how rare they are or aren't. Really, none of that makes any difference to me when I'm out in the garden mid-August, admiring a particularly handsome plant loaded with tomatoes in all their beautiful stages of development. Or when I bite into a big, thick slice of juicy tomato meat fresh out of the garden. How about you?

If the exact history of a tomato is really all that important to you, I'd advise you to take Lisa's version of the history of several of her varieties with a grain of salt. But then can't that be said of the histories given for many tomatoes by vendors, or even "historians" in our hobby? I submit, for an example, the several varieties of Brandywine that carry the "Amish heritage" and a date of 1885 on the plant tag or in the catalog blurb? You know, the ones with red tomatoes, and pink tomatoes, and regular leaves, and potato leaves? (I won't even go into all the "histories" that claim "they've been in the family for 100 years or more."

How to handle it? I say if you buy seeds from Lisa for a tomato about which there is serious doubt, simply grow it, discover it's values, if good, grow it again; but share it only with cautionary notes as to it's source and supposed heritage.

Hope all y'all have a great tomato growing season. Lunch is over for me now, and it's time to go back outside and continue planting tomatoes of quesionable heritage!
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