Tiller Question

[christian1971]

I rented a tiller yesterday, but didn't get the depth I think I needed. About 2 inches deep. I tilled thru sod which was not fun. So after a break we adjusted the height. But wouldn't you know it, the tiller wouldn't start and had to be returned. So we were all pretty p.o. I assume 2 inches is not deep enough for tomato plants? Or can I dig a hole for each plant? Can corn be planted at 2 inches deep? Just a wee bit frustrated. My wife thinks roots won't penetrate thru the untilled soil below 2 inches of tilled soil. Or will it? Sure could use some guidance. Soil is dense and clay like. Not sandy.

[rags57078]

I would dig for the tomatoes and plant the corn .

[imp]

Are you trying to till unbroken ground, lawn area, small area or large? What does your soil look like down a shovel full or two ( 5 to 12 inches)?

Minnesota covers a lot of soil types.

You can do a "no till" type thing, but not knowing your soil and the drainage makes it a guessing game.

When you say "grass" do you mean a yard type grass or weeds? Some are harder to deal with than others.

You can grow stuff, just you can grow it better with a bit of work.

[christian1971]

It is not exactly unbroken. Dug up to put pipe down 3 years ago. Plot is approx 25' X 25'.

[dmforcier]

Exactly where are you in MN?

[christian1971]

Soil is loamy

[christian1971]

Grey Eagle, MN
Central Minnesota

[PureHarvest]

How long do you have until you need to plant out the maters and how many are you doing?
If you have 3 or more weeks and not a huge amount to plant, I'd sprinkle down some compost and organic fert like plant tone at each place you want to plant. Then cap that with a hunk of straw off of a bale. If you look at a full size bale it is a series of compressed regtangularish pieces. Pull off a couple hunks that are thick enough to smother the spot and block light.
In a few weeks you will be amazed what it looks like underneath.
Then move the hunk, Dig your hole, plant, and mulch with the straw.

[PureHarvest]

image.jpeg

Here is what I'm saying.
This would be multiple hunks layed out with the middle one lifted out for planting. Squares should be about 4" thick.
I once just layed a bale on top of grass in a yard I had with heavy clay.
I tossed down 3 handfuls of plant tone, laid the bale on top and walked away.
2 months later the red clay was darker brown with dozens of worm holes.
I dug the hole for the tree I was planting with my bare hands. I was stunned.
No weeds or grass and the bale let moisture trickle down and kept the ground from losing moisture to sun and wind.
Of course, I had more time on my side. The plant tone was a big part of the equation because it has microbes added to it and nutrients to feed the ones already there and kept the carbon in the straw from robbing the soil of nitrogen.
As for your corn, I am guessing that you would have poor results with only 2" of loose soil on top.
If it is hard underneath that, where are the roots gonna go? If your plants grow, how will the wind not blow them down?

[dmforcier]

Now I'm not a ground gardener any more, but it seems to me that you are trying to accomplish three things:

1) Get rid of the grass and existing foliage;
2) Loosen up the soil;
3) Work in soil amendments, such as compost.

For 1), a tiller may not be your best bet. Grass in particular is rather fond of being chopped up and spread around. PureHarvest's and similar techniques are more effective, but they take a while to work. Another is to cut the grass layer off intact, maybe use it elsewhere in your garden or sell it to the neighbors.

For 2), it may not be required. Loamy soil can be loose enough to support good growth. But assuming that it is desirable, while a tiller makes it easier, this is what garden forks were made for. But 25' square would be a fair amount of work. What you may want to do is till as deep as you can, then follow with a fork to break up the deep stuff somewhat.

3) can be done manually, too, but a tiller will make it much easier and produce a more thorough mix.

If you're going to till, till as deep as you can.

Good luck. Please keep use posted with what you do.

Dennis

[PureHarvest]

Yeah, sod busting is a tough proposition to undertake for the homeowner with small equipment and lack of time on your side.
If you had time, scalping the area with your mower set as low as it goes, followed by layers of newspaper covered with an inch of compost would smother everything. Then you could plant right in or till.
But this takes some weeks.
That is why I was thinking of doing a version of this just at the places you will actually plant. Still need some weeks though. Otherwise you are looking at hand turning the ground and coming back with the tiller to break up the hunks and clods you made.
Turning and tilling really burns up organic matter and breaks up the intricate web of life that has been building unseen over time.
But sometimes u do what u have to. Just be sure to use compost and biologicals at some point and organic based fertilizer to reintroduce microbes to the soil.
Follow that with a cover crop in the fall to protect that soil. The root mass from your cover crop will add lots of carbon/organic matter back. You never want to have bare ground, especially over winter.
In early spring you can mow low and kill off your cover crop well ahead of planting and just strip till where you will plant or lay down rolls of landscape fabric or plastic or paper to smother where you want to plant so u don't have to till.

[Cole_Robbie]

If you just scrape that 2" up into ridges, it becomes deeper top soil under the roots. Then start adding amendments to those ridges to build them up each year. You may sacrifice a few row-feet this way, but it's better to have quality than quantity.

[imp]

Originally Posted by christian1971

I rented a tiller yesterday, but didn't get the depth I think I needed. About 2 inches deep. I tilled thru sod which was not fun. So after a break we adjusted the height. But wouldn't you know it, the tiller wouldn't start and had to be returned. So we were all pretty p.o. I assume 2 inches is not deep enough for tomato plants? Or can I dig a hole for each plant? Can corn be planted at 2 inches deep? Just a wee bit frustrated. My wife thinks roots won't penetrate thru the untilled soil below 2 inches of tilled soil. Or will it? Sure could use some guidance. Soil is dense and clay like. Not sandy.

Originally Posted by christian1971

It is not exactly unbroken. Dug up to put pipe down 3 years ago. Plot is approx 25' X 25'.

Originally Posted by christian1971

Soil is loamy

Originally Posted by christian1971

Grey Eagle, MN
Central Minnesota

To put the information in one spot.

You are using words that tend to be confusing a bit- clay like versus loamy, dense, and so on.

I don't fully recall the jar shake test, but there is a way ro take your dirt, add water and shake the devil out of it, then let it settle undisturbed to know what sort of soil one has to work with.

Maybe one of the other members can explain it way better than I can.

Pipe was laid? Are you planting over the pipe? Depending on what the pipe is for, might be a factor in whether you should or not plant over it.

Is this part of your yard or has it been used as a garden area before?

Tilling is rarely fun, unless you are having a glass of tea and watching some one else do it; sometimes tilling is a good idea, sometimes not- depends on a lot of things.

There seems to be a lot of farming and forestry in that area, so your county agent will be great for information for you to use. That office is usually full of nice folks that want to help, too.

[dmforcier]

Good advice, imp.

[meandtk]

Originally Posted by christian1971

I rented a tiller yesterday, but didn't get the depth I think I needed. About 2 inches deep. I tilled thru sod which was not fun. So after a break we adjusted the height. But wouldn't you know it, the tiller wouldn't start and had to be returned. So we were all pretty p.o. I assume 2 inches is not deep enough for tomato plants? Or can I dig a hole for each plant? Can corn be planted at 2 inches deep? Just a wee bit frustrated. My wife thinks roots won't penetrate thru the untilled soil below 2 inches of tilled soil. Or will it? Sure could use some guidance. Soil is dense and clay like. Not sandy.

Yes, corn can be planted.
You can get a post hole digger and dig holes for your tomatoes. You may want to add some organic matter to the holes in order to keep the dirt loose.
Working new ground is difficult, but can be done.