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Old February 15, 2017   #16
cwavec
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Default OP versions

In fact there appear to be at least several so-called OP versions.
I know of at least three and at least one of the "operators"
selling them claims to have "dehybridized" the variety. That
is nonsense.

I have actually tried two of these and they do not compare
favorably. They do not have the characteristic subtlety and
complexity of Dona F1. In my judgment they are not worth
having but you can find them easily if you want.

Another version has been sold as plants. While the company
knew very well that they were using so-called OP seeds,
they falsely and illegally claimed that they were selling hybrid
plants. When notified of the discrepancy, they changed their
claim on the website slightly. A year later they went more-or-
less back to the same claim. Worse, even though they were
provided with a source for genuine Dona F1 seeds, which they
could have used to supply genuine plants and probably made
a bigger profit, they chose not to.

My suggestion is that you not bother with any of them. If you
ever get the chance to compare any of these with the F1, you
will know the difference immediately.
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Old February 15, 2017   #17
cwavec
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@MarlynnMarcks:

Why don't you just send me a SASE. I will be happy to
send you a few anyway. You can plant them next year
or give to someone who would plant them now.

I'm sending a PM with the address.
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Old February 15, 2017   #18
Nan_PA_6b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labradors2 View Post
Marilyn, these are not OP - but there IS an OP version of Dona. I wonder how it compares????

Linda
The OP will almost certainly not have the disease resistance of the F1.

Nan
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Old February 15, 2017   #19
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwavec View Post
@gdaddybill:

Oh yes, the 90's. Love the photo. Seeds for those must have
come from Shepherd's Seeds (Renee Shepherd). That's who was
importing them then, up until 2007 when they were discontinued for
a while.

Wouldn't it be nice if a similar seed company were to pick them up
again, now that they are back in production (2009). Heh, only two
years. They didn't get away with it!
Absolutely correct. She was offering this one as well as another French one called Carmello F1, couldn't get any more seeds and this link from Tania I think explains what came from where.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Dona

I grew the F1's of both Dona and Carmello which I got from her then seed site and,well, wasn't impressed at all , considering the options I had as to medium sized reds, whether F1 or OP

Break O Day is a great OP that more folks should grow IMO

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Break_O%27Day

But I do appreciate the offer for true Dona F1 that is being made,especially for those who didn't know it even existed.

Carolyn
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Old February 15, 2017   #20
cwavec
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Hi Carolyn, glad to see your opinion.

Yes, I understand that some people are not as impressed as I am
as well as some others. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

On the other hand, I've found out after all this time that Dona F1
does require some heat to develop it's characteristic subtlety. A
few weeks of cloudless 85 degree days makes a big difference.

2014 and 2015 here (Western PA) were cloudy and cool and Dona
did not do well. I had a few good ones and the rest were acceptable
but not wonderful. Green and yellow tomatoes in those two years
were much closer to their normally expected quality. So if I were in a
predominantly cool and overcast climate, maybe I would try something
else. 2016 - a different story.

Incidentally, there is a short list of varieties that you have circulated,
including Supersonic and it turns out that Supersonic, in fact, shares
some of the characteristics that I appreciate in Dona. Not as
pronounced but good enough that if I ever could absolutely not get
Dona anymore, I would substitute SUpersonic and be satisfied that
I had not lost too much.
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Old February 16, 2017   #21
Gardeneer
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When I read things like this I wonder what is it that make a variety so special selling seeds at such a high price ?
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Old February 16, 2017   #22
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That's what I am thinking, Gardeneer.. Sure it can be a good variety, but so are hundreds of others, both hybrid and OP, easily available in the U.S...
What makes this so special it has to be smuggled out of Europe at any cost to hungry growers ..
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Old February 17, 2017   #23
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PM sent. What a generous offer. Thank you.
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Old February 17, 2017   #24
JosephineRose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Absolutely correct. She was offering this one as well as another French one called Carmello F1, couldn't get any more seeds and this link from Tania I think explains what came from where.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Dona

I grew the F1's of both Dona and Carmello which I got from her then seed site and,well, wasn't impressed at all , considering the options I had as to medium sized reds, whether F1 or OP

Break O Day is a great OP that more folks should grow IMO

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Break_O%27Day

But I do appreciate the offer for true Dona F1 that is being made,especially for those who didn't know it even existed.

Carolyn
Forgive me, as I don't know the history, but were the Shepherd seeds not actually F1s? She is offering Crimson Carmello on her new site now, and claims those are the OP version of that variety. I considered buying for a moment and then got the F1 elsewhere.

I'll be honest, I like her seeds for other vegetables but in nearly a decade I have never successfully grown a tomato from RGS.

I've been looking for the Dona F1s forever and was similarly tempted by the "OP" versions from several sites, glad I never tried them.
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Old February 17, 2017   #25
ScottinAtlanta
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I grow a few Dona F1 every year, and they are good producers here in Atlanta.
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Old February 18, 2017   #26
cwavec
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Default Shepherd's Seeds

@JosephineRose


Yes, they were F1, which made it such a disaster when the breeder
discontinued them and even Renee couldn't get any. That was in 2007.
2009, they were re-introduced, apparently by demand of French
farmers and gardeners.

Apparently, nobody knew this, at least in this country. I happened to
find out on the Vilmorin website (no announcement was made here)
and set about trying to get some. So far, no retail seed company
in US seems to have restocked them.

It's hard to know what Renee is handling as Crimson Carmello. I
guess it would bear some relation to the previous Carmello F1.
You could ask. She does have a horticulturist there who is willing
to answer such questions.

Also, Renee does rename some varieties for whatever reason, sometimes
just for licensing reasons. For instance, I grew Ramdor yellow pole
beans for several years but began to run out of seed. She's got
something she calls French Gold and I had my suspicions, so asked,
partly because she also carries Rocdor from the same breeder. French
Gold is from plants raised and harvested from Ramdor seeds. I have
grown them a couple years now and, beans being beans, they are
identical as far as I can tell. Very nice flavor and 48 days from seed
to first harvest.

With respect to Carmello again, there is a Carmello F1 being sold by a
couple of small US companies. Also, I have seen this on some European
websites but don't remember where. Often, I am doubtful about the
F1 and OP claims made by lots of companies. On the other hand,
Syngenta also has a Carmello F1 in Europe and if they are defending
any rights they may have, maybe you'd have a chance of getting the
right thing. Google "Carmello F1".

Also, there is still a thread on "Gardenweb",now Houzz, with some
information and opinions on this topic:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...me-as-carmello

One thing I see in there that has me wondering is Carolyn's claim that
she has found yearbook entries from 1989 showing OP Dona. That has
me a bit pestered as I'm very sure Dona F1 was not introduced until
1992, which is in accord with her recollection that Renee had it in the
early 90s. However, she sees what she sees and I don't want to
argue with that or try to explain it away.

Nonetheless, I think it prudent to be dubious about anybody's claims
(Renee and Carolyn excepted) just because there are so many people
using and misusing these names. Some of them are naive or careless
and others are flat out lying. At the same time, if I were Syngenta or
Vilmorin, and I had some actual rights under EU law or treaties, I
probably would not try to defend any of it in USA. It can't be worth it
trying to scrap with any of the screwball people who do this kind of
thing. I guess I would just sell in Europe, try to keep my titles clear
there and not worry about the US.
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Old February 18, 2017   #27
cwavec
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Default Carmello F1

I've just located the page on Carmello F1 at graines-caillard.com
This company is also a breeder of tomato varieties and since they
specifically say it is hybrid F1 and that it is their own specialty,
this may well be the actual source.

http://graines-caillard.com/produits...es&product=258
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Old February 19, 2017   #28
ScottinAtlanta
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Just to be clear, I buy my Dona F1 in Paris.
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Old February 19, 2017   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta View Post
Just to be clear, I buy my Dona F1 in Paris.
I grew them last year from the seeds you generously shared. What a nice tomato plant. Copious producer of lovely sweet fruit. Many thanks Scott. BTW- Have you responded to my seed offer yet?
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Old February 19, 2017   #30
ScottinAtlanta
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Marsha, I love your seed offer, but my seed albums are now where seeds go to die. I have thousands of seeds who are becoming hoary with age.

I am focusing on growing what I have rather than expanding, at least for a couple of years.
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