Overwintering Tomatoes?

[CapnChkn]

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place, but everything I'll need is in this forum.

I've gotten the idea to overwinter the two plants that made it through the summer with all the bits intact. Every other "Super Beefsteak" tomato (It's what it said on the seed package, I'm not sure what they really are.) died from Southern Blight or wilt.

My questions are:
1) I have old leaves dying on the lower vines, giving it a tree like appearance. If I prune the branches down close to the rootstock, will the plant develop new shoots from the axial buds?
2) What lower range temperatures will tomatoes tolerate for long periods?
3) What varieties will work better in this situation? In other words, are certain varieties of tomato more prone to producing new branchlets and leaves from severely pruned rootstocks?

It seems to me that tomatoes continue to extend from the tips rather than send shoots from the base. I would like to cover the big one I have to see if I can extend it's production through the winter and rejuvenate it come springtime. I'm now rooting cuttings from the "super" super beefsteak, and will bring some inside, as well as keep some in my little greenhouse, to continue my experiments in the spring.

[Cole_Robbie]

I think it's possible, but I'm not sure what you would accomplish besides incubating all of last year's disease and giving it a head start on next year. Tomato plants will survive if they don't freeze, but without warm temps they will not produce any tomato you'd want to eat. If you put it under giant grow lights inside, it might keep producing, but the electricity to power the lights will cost more than the value of the tomatoes you get.

If want to grow a plant inside, it would still be easier to start over. I'd start seeds in January or February - it's ten times easier to grow a seedling inside than it is a fruiting plant.

[CapnChkn]

Alrighty, I can see that with the rootstock, but not the cuttings. I have been wondering why the idea of not carrying the genetic lines through the winter would be a good idea, and disease is a vector.

I've saved the seeds from the good plants, giving me the resistance I'm looking for, but I also want to experiment with keeping the working genetics alive as well.

As a heads up, I don't know crap about growing produce. I've grown Bonsai and flowers for years, and raise worms and bees as well, I just started selling this stuff at the local Farmer's market and produce kind of shines out here...

http://www.facebook.com/itchy.anthropoid

[greentiger87]

I'm confused by your use of the term "root stock" - these are not grafted tomatoes, are they? Are these in the ground? What do you mean by "disease is a vector"?

I've overwintered tomatoes many times, but never on the scale I plan to do this year. Tomatoes, like the other nightshade vegetables, are very amenable to hard pruning. I often prune to stubs or foot tall "trunks" in the peak of summer to allow the plant to regrow for a fall crop. Only *indeterminate* tomatoes will do this reliably; determinate varieties will almost always die. Peppers and eggplant are so well suited for this that enthusiasts even refer to them as "bonsai".

Wild tomatoes are perennials in the tropics, so "overwintering" isn't all that unusual. However, I have much milder winters that you do, so that definitely aids my success. My disease problems are foliar only, so I don't have to worry about soil borne issues like southern blight/wilt.

As a side note, I've noticed that in my particular growing conditions, tomatoes can easily run out of magnesium by the time they produce a full crop. At one point, I was even mistaking magnesium deficiency for a devastating, defoliating fungal disease. A generous sprinkling of epsom salts along with a high nitrogen fertilizer is very helpful in promoting strong regrowth after hard pruning. Conditioning plants with potassium silicate (Dyna-gro Pro-Tekt or a similar product) and/or seaweed seems to improve cold tolerance and overwintering success.

I think you'd have an easier time and more success by taking cuttings and potting them up, supplementing them with grow lights indoors when the weather gets too cold. You may need to start a second set of cuttings from the 1st set to get plants that are manageable indoors until you can plant them out again. Tomatoes root from cuttings incredibly easily. Of course, this is only if you really want plants identical to the survivors.

Frankly though, you'd be much better off drooling over some new varieties and finding seeds for plants that are innately resistant to your major problems. There are just too many options to limit yourself to Super Beefsteak clones, whose survival may have had little to do with genetics.

[CapnChkn]

Yep! I meant the roots. Maybe the terminology is incorrect, but it seems the same, it's the mass of the roots, soil, and base of the plant. The plants were started from seed.

"Vector for disease," at least the way I'm using it, means it's a potential for carrying the spores or dormant organisms till the next growing season.

Since I work with Worm Castings, I've been using them to grow everything. All plants in my gardens are grown with Hot compost, and Worm castings alone. I cannot tell you what the NPK rating is, but since the hot compost is mostly green matter I believe there're no Nitrogen problems.

I wasn't able to post photos. I think I've got the approval now!


This is the plant in question. The bed on either side was also planted, but I ended up pulling out the other plants for whatever reasons.


This is the base, as you can see the leaves around it have died and get removed. As answered by greentiger87 (Thank You!) I've been wondering if I chopped the vines down to this, leaving stems with some axials, would the plant sprout new shoots from the axial buds, crown, or roots.

Right now I've been toying with the idea of covering this and putting barrels of water to keep the temperature up.

As for other varieties, I'm just trying to rough out what I might be doing here. I've grown Tomatoes before, but they would get one little fruit on a beautiful plant that would simply rot. I've sorted out how to get fruits, and am trying to get them earlier now.

[Cole_Robbie]

Right now I've been toying with the idea of covering this and putting barrels of water to keep the temperature up.

Maybe on the slim chance that we had a freakishly warm winter like last year, then the plant might live. But with normal winter weather, there's no way. Water barrels lose most of their heat long before sun-up. They are a way to stave off cool temperatures for a while, but they can't beat a hard freeze. Or at least if you could make it work, it would take so much effort that it would not be worthwhile.

That plant doesn't look so great, anyway. The dead leaves look like late blight to me. It's not good, whatever it is.

Is this about getting early tomatoes? If that's what you want, then grow a plant in a bucket in the early spring, either in a greenhouse or carried in and outside depending upon the weather. I'm about 200 miles northwest of you and I had good tomatoes the first week of May this year.

[clkeiper]

Capt, I wouldn't encourage you to keep that tomato either. It does look as if it has the blight. Start over with new seeds in the spring and SPRAY the tomatoes with a fungicide every two weeks or so. There are many to choose from, synthetic and organic. Take your choice, but do spray them of you want to get a crop of tomatoes for the late summer. Even disease resistant tomatoes do better if they are sprayed with a fungicide. Something as simple as a baking soda spray (which is very cheap and natural aka organic) liquid copper (organic) or even daconil (synthetic) all help to keep the plant alive.

[easttx_hippie]

I agree with GreenTiger. Take cuttings and start clones of the plants you want to keep. It's easy and you can get lots of plants from one. I do that with my favorite tomatoes and peppers. It's usually warm enough here in East Texas that I can grow them without a lot of time in the greenhouse.

Maybe you could do a few clones and then cut the plant to see how well it does in regrowing. That way you'll have the same tomato plant no matter what happens with the original.

[CapnChkn]

Not to worry folks, it's not Blight. There's no fungus on the leaves, no leisions on the stems or fruit. It looks bad, but the leaves that are hanging there are the old leaves. I can't tell you why they're dying like that, but temperatures and light are dropping here in Middle TN.


As you can see in these photos, taken at the same time as the large plant in the middle, I have made cuttings, rooted them, and have planted them in the same soil I'm growing the first tomato in.

The plants in the pots are deliberate cuttings, and some peppers I want to overwinter.


More cuttings made from the large plant. As you can see, there's no infection.

easttx_hippie, I've made around 20 or more cuttings from this plant already. I'm just sorting out what I can do with these things. I've only made a pepper cutting from a Cayenne once, I was living in FL, and they regenerated from the roots every year.

clkeiper I'm just fiddling around. I'm taking a few inside to keep them alive, and see if I can keep them going in the greenhouse this winter. I started that one plant from seed in March, and it started producing in August. I don't feel like waiting that long for tomatoes anymore.

Didn't know about the Baking Soda trick. Thank you!

[saltmarsh]

To help you get an earlier start next year, you might cover the area you want to plant them with plastic to warm the soil and when you plant them modify dry ice shippers to protect them. You can get them for free if you look around. Ask your friendly UPS or Fed Ex driver who they deliver them to in your area. Many businesses throw them in the trash. Claud

[clkeiper]

Saltmarsh, Did you put the reflective insulation in the box or did they come that way? I have seen the plain styrofoam with ice packs but was wondering if the dry ice shippers were different. thanks

[saltmarsh]

clkeiper, I'm not an expert on all the manufacturers but the one's I'm familar with are as follows:

The ones made for Ice Packs are normally lined with plain foam, on some the foam is 1/2" on others it's 1". I've gotten some of those and don't use them.

The dry ice shippers are what I use and I'm able to get so many of them that I'm picky.
I've seen 3 sizes,
10" x 10" x 10" (inside measurements) with 1/2" shrink wrapped foil faced foam (no garbage bag)

12" x 12" x 12" (inside measurements) with 1/2" shrink wrapped foil faced foam in a clear garbage bag. These are the ones I use. I open the bottom of the box and fold the flaps back up on the outside, remove the weld from the bottom of the bag and pull it down enough to cover the bottom flaps. Remove the bottom piece of foam. Open the top and fold the flaps down on the outside. pull the top of the bag over top flaps and tape it in place with a good clear plastic tape. Remove the top piece of foam. Save the top and bottom foam to cover the plants in cold weather. You end up with a weather resistant box with 2 thicknesses of cardboard and a 1/2" of foil faced foam and 2 covers in case something happens to one of them. The top and bottom foam fit tight enough to stay in place without fasteners. When you're finished with them, slide the foam out of the cardboard and it folds flat for storage untill they're needed again.
Some this size also come with 1" thick foil faced foam (used when shipping longer distances) but this is overkill for protecting plants.
These work much better than water walls. They don't leak and don't collapse on your plants and they're free.

12 x 14 x 14 (inside measure) with 1" foil faced foam in a heavy clear garbage bag. Overkill and the bag won't cover the outside of the box. Hope this helps, Claud.

[clkeiper]

Thanks Saltmarsh. I haven't seen a dry ice shipper, but will ask the ups driver the next time I see him about them. I appreciate the idea. I use the WOW's but this past year wasn't a good year for them and then even some of the new ones leaked....I was struggling between the extremely hot March, freezing April, dry May and collapsing WOW's. Wasn't good!

[saltmarsh]

clkeiper, I'm a cabinetmaker by trade and most of my work is custom laboratory cabinets if that helps.

[Cole_Robbie]

That is a neat repurposing idea.

The 1/2" foil-faced sheeting is only $10 for a 4x8 sheet. At .30 for a 1 sq ft piece, the four sides could be made for a little over a dollar's worth of foam.

Do you use those metal staples to affix it to the ground? I am thinking of bamboo stakes. Mostly what I would need it for is a wind break. I have been using some 3-ring cages with a clear shrink wrap around the cage, which works great until it falls off.