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Old January 8, 2017   #46
bower
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Default Kitten Paws Pink F3 - pink and black and early and loaded

Another case where six plants was enough for the recessives to turn up. One PL plant, and one pink-black. These were all quality early small fruit, although one early flowering pink had an edge in the taste department and was also extremely productive with very large clusters. Next generation will tell whether this is a genetic or environmental effect. I am also curious, now that I know the gf allele was present in the F2 selection, whether it may be the gf allele again, which gave this plant a bit of extra flavor and edged out the PL sibling to be grown forward. The black is delightful in its own way, and ok I admit I adore black tomatoes. Black Kitten Paws is fine by me.

The big cluster size made these plants productive for the space in spite of a tendency to be long and leggy in the crowded greenhouse environment. Set of fruit in these clusters was counted and estimated to run about 80%. Unfortunately, dropping blossoms, whether set or not, also bring the curse of high maintenance by dropping mold onto the mess of fruiting stems or the leaves below them. Someone suggested this might not be an issue outdoors because the wind would blow them away and that is worth investigating. In fact the tendency to be large rambling plants is another reason to see how they perform outside since the cool weather will curtail that.
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File Type: png 2016KITTENPAWSdata.png (35.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg KittenPaws-segregants.JPG (156.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg KittenPaws-clusterset-ripening.JPG (350.8 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg KittenPaws-black.JPG (90.9 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg KP3black-wt.JPG (150.3 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg KPRL1-wt-sizevariation.JPG (163.7 KB, 27 views)
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Old January 8, 2017   #47
bower
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Default F3 of Winter Sky - pretty colors

Six plants, one gf/gf Beta/-, four more with Beta/- color, one strange gf? red? and a lot of green stripes, but late, firm to hard and slow ripening, and some uneven ripening too.
No determinate! in this batch of six, I guess I had to luck out????

Outdoors in the woodstacker, there was no serious fruit setting until it warmed up in August for awhile. By the time they started to blush, the season was really over - partly my fault for starting late, and partly my fault for forgetting, they only have Zolotoe Serdtse's 'middle' earliness and laterness from Indian Stripe. Two in the greenhouse were crowded and shaded, and there was uneven ripening especially in the earlier one. The black Beta/- finally set and ripened, but the fruit was pretty insipid, not a bit tasty. Too bad! The greenhouse Beta/- was not sweet or special either, but the first to ripen outdoors was very sweet so I saved seeds from it. It was the only one that was notably sweet, and the interesting taste of the F2 wasn't to be found in any of these.
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File Type: png 2016WINTERSKYdata.png (39.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg WinterSky1-unevenripening.JPG (208.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg WinterSky-inwoodstacker.JPG (272.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg WinterSkyF3-sibs.JPG (162.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg WIN-4T-sweetbeta.JPG (142.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg WinterSky-gf-sibs.JPG (177.8 KB, 25 views)
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Old January 8, 2017   #48
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Default Winter Sky - more questions about reds??

The brick brown Win 6T in the picture above was pretty firm. I let them all ripen for a long time "fully" ripen and it is difficult to tell with such a slow and firm fruit. Ok it's true I ignored them, sitting in a bowl on the counter.

So I was a bit surprised to see that Win 6T turned completely red. It was a different shade of red than its neighbour, still with a hint of brick in it. Cut open, the gel was not green at all. No trace of green remaining. This left me to wonder... was it a black at all? or just a very green unripe red?

In the pic below, ripe colors after a long wait, and sliced view of 6T and the darker red 3T. Notice that there is a band of dark red flesh on the outside under the cuticle. It is very obvious in the larger fruit, that this is not cuticle itself but a band of flesh which is darker red.
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File Type: jpg WinterSky-sibs-redcolors.JPG (266.3 KB, 25 views)
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Old January 8, 2017   #49
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Default Sundog F3 - last of the season

This second sibling from the cross Zolotoe Serdtse X Indian Stripe, was also destined for outdoors from the start. I had no shelter for them, so they leaned against the greenhouse for a while, then four of them moved to the valley and finally, a last desperate form of support tested - a hangin pole in the woods.
It was not a good support plan. It worked fine as a support, but life among the spruces and vars is not for tomatoes like these. Some fruit simply disappeared quietly as they began to ripen. I wasn't paying enough attention to realize until it was too late. Other fruit gathered mold spores in their crevices, some were outright savaged by slugs on the vine, or combinations of. When I realized the best ones were just vanishing, I gathered all that were left and brought them indoors to ripen and look see. The most interesting one, with prominent radial striping, turned out to be a cherry-burgundy black with no beta... scarred but beautiful. Not a single fruit from the hangin pole was actually fit to eat, but I saved seeds from this one.

Shown next to it on the plate is a Beta/- black with nice stripes that got tucked into the wood stacker with the Winter Skys. You can tell that it benefitted from shelter. I will never grow beefs in the woods again.
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File Type: jpg Sundog-supports-annex.JPG (329.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg SUNDOG-stripesegs.JPG (174.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg cherry-burgundy-sundog.JPG (224.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg cherry-burgndy-sundog-sliced.JPG (199.3 KB, 24 views)
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Old January 8, 2017   #50
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Default Sundog F3 - one determinate... but is it a full Beta?

Last not least, the other plant still leaning against the house began to show signs of determinate growth, very late in the season. I cleared space and brought it indoors. The fruit started to ripen on the vine with the extra warmth, and then I learned that my nemesis, the slugs, had already found and made a home in the container and were brought indoors to the feast.

Still I did manage to snatch a couple to ripen on a plate and save some seeds. What surprised me is the ripe color, very reddish for a full Beta, and really looking the same as the half Beta in the last generation. Is it possible that the determinate was expressed without the Beta linkage? Or that link was broken more easily than expected. If so, I may not get a determinate from Winter Sky at all... and maybe didn't find one because it isn't there... ????
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File Type: jpg Sundog-DET-outdoor-green.JPG (290.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Sundog-DET-pattern.JPG (133.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Sundog-DET-plant-inside.JPG (183.0 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg SUNDOG-DET.JPG (190.6 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Sundog-DET-riperedblack.JPG (168.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Sundogdet-sliced.JPG (166.2 KB, 22 views)
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Old January 8, 2017   #51
KarenO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower View Post
Ah, what a good question that is!
As I'm going through and posting this, I can't believe the number of projects I crammed in. And it was way too much.
I'm going to have to make some tough decisions about next year. Kind of hoping it'll become clearer to me by writing this up and squinting at the data.
You don't have to give up on any of them, just concentrate on your furthest along favs and finish them. The seeds of the others will wait for you. I have a couple of F2 lines mothballed waiting for me to finish the PL hearts and the Karmas.
I have a couple other ideas , I will make the crosses when it suits me knowing the seeds keep for years takes the pressure off
So many cool projects you have going I can see why you don't want to leave any behind but I know for myself it gets difficult quickly to give them the space and number of plants each needs.
I hope 2017 is a great year for you!! Keep us up to date on your progress, looking forward to trying your tomatoes someday
Karen
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Old January 8, 2017   #52
jmsieglaff
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bower, I really enjoy your detailed posts and enjoy watching your projects. I am growing some micro dwarfs, doing a couple families with the dwarf project, and will be doing my own indeterminate cross this summer. I'm going to use some of your note taking methodology to keep myself organized. Thanks again for posting and good luck this year, looking forward to seeing your results next winter!
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Old January 8, 2017   #53
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Thanks, both of you, for the good luck and encouragement.
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