Starting Long-day Onions Indoors - Page 2

salix · January 27, 2011

Kath, last year I started seed for all of my Alliums on 1 March. They were moved out to the unheated garage (still under lights, tho') on 18 March, at which point they did indeed look like little grass sprouts. By the way, I sort of do a dense type of sowing, but in short rows in fairly deep containers. OK, OK, they are Costco salad containers with holes punched in the bottom and are at least 6 years old!! At that point they had probably been watered at least once with dilute seaweed or manure tea. On 25 March they were put outside in a sheltered spot for an hour to start the hardening off process. By 31 March they were left out all day and overnight, even though the temperatures were only about1 degree above freezing. They were sheltered under a walkway, and sheltered from any strong north winds. Brought them in on 9 April because temps went down to -9C. Warmed up a bit the next day and at that point took them from under the walkway and started to harden them off to bright sunlight. Were probably getting watered once a week with the diluted compost tea. They were planted in-ground on 18 May at our remote garden which is zone 2 (and was still freezing some nights). At that point they are about the size of chives with only 2 or 3 leaves. I think having to cope with the cold temperatures keeps them "compact". I plant them on 6" centres and keep 'em well weeded. No fertilizing done, just the raised beds amended with compost before planting. Harvested on 7 September, good size and great condition, after having endured several light frosty nights. I just give them a quick rinse (weather had been quite rainy so they were muddy) and let them dry outside under shelter for a couple of days. I bring them in at night, always afraid wandering bears will find them irresistable. As of today, they are still in perfect condition - I store them in open flat boxes in the unheated garage - so far this year it has only gotten down to +1 C out there, if it seems that it might freeze (only if it gets to -40 C with a wind) I would bring them inside. I expect them to remain in good condition for another couple of months, then I will deal with them (freeze or dehydrate, or make onion marmalade) because by then I will need those shelves for this years transplants.

And that's my Allium circle-of-life, LOL! My main point in this rambling post was to let you know not to worry about the size of your seedlings. I'm sure they'll be just fine.

tjg911 · January 27, 2011

yeah i agree my plants are not all that big re diameter when i plant out. many are ~ 3/16" but many are 1/16" or 1/8" in diameter. they grow tall and i cut them back when they get to 5" back down to 3" under the lights and i fertilize only 2 or 3 times under the lights. mine go out 4/15 or so and harvest is aug 7 to 10 for copra and red wing. i wouldn't worry that the plants are not big like many other from seed plants, onions do just fine. what i wouldn't do is direct seed we do not have the time for that in day long growing areas.

yopper · January 29, 2011

I have leeks growig in a south window that I planted 1/1/11 and trimed them yesterday. I don't start my onions any more[I BUY PLANTS ] but when I did I started them early feb. and they were so small that they were a pain to plant with my old numb fingers. Here I try to plant out the last of april and they usually get a snow or two on them. Candy is my main onion and some will store till the new crop is ready to eat.[ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER

kath · January 29, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by salix

Kath, last year I started seed for all of my Alliums on 1 March. They were moved out to the unheated garage (still under lights, tho') on 18 March, at which point they did indeed look like little grass sprouts. By the way, I sort of do a dense type of sowing, but in short rows in fairly deep containers. OK, OK, they are Costco salad containers with holes punched in the bottom and are at least 6 years old!! At that point they had probably been watered at least once with dilute seaweed or manure tea. On 25 March they were put outside in a sheltered spot for an hour to start the hardening off process. By 31 March they were left out all day and overnight, even though the temperatures were only about1 degree above freezing. They were sheltered under a walkway, and sheltered from any strong north winds. Brought them in on 9 April because temps went down to -9C. Warmed up a bit the next day and at that point took them from under the walkway and started to harden them off to bright sunlight. Were probably getting watered once a week with the diluted compost tea. They were planted in-ground on 18 May at our remote garden which is zone 2 (and was still freezing some nights). At that point they are about the size of chives with only 2 or 3 leaves. I think having to cope with the cold temperatures keeps them "compact". I plant them on 6" centres and keep 'em well weeded. No fertilizing done, just the raised beds amended with compost before planting. Harvested on 7 September, good size and great condition, after having endured several light frosty nights. I just give them a quick rinse (weather had been quite rainy so they were muddy) and let them dry outside under shelter for a couple of days. I bring them in at night, always afraid wandering bears will find them irresistable. As of today, they are still in perfect condition - I store them in open flat boxes in the unheated garage - so far this year it has only gotten down to +1 C out there, if it seems that it might freeze (only if it gets to -40 C with a wind) I would bring them inside. I expect them to remain in good condition for another couple of months, then I will deal with them (freeze or dehydrate, or make onion marmalade) because by then I will need those shelves for this years transplants.

And that's my Allium circle-of-life, LOL! My main point in this rambling post was to let you know not to worry about the size of your seedlings. I'm sure they'll be just fine.

Thanks very much, Salix, for sharing all these details! I think mine could definitely use a bit more cold treatment, although they do live in the cold basement, but they get so leggy that I wind up trimming several times even before I plant them.
We have an unheated shed, but I thought it was too cold for onion storage.
Anyway, lots of things to try. Appreciate your suggestions!

kath

kath · January 29, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by yopper

Candy is my main onion and some will store till the new crop is ready to eat.[ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER

Another person growing Candy in the north- definitely going to give this one a try. DH thinks an onion needs to be red to be eaten raw, but maybe this will change his mind.

tjg911 · January 29, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by yopper

I have leeks growig in a south window that I planted 1/1/11 and trimed them yesterday. ...... [ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER

OH NOW YOU ARE DOOMED!

you planted on the most cursed day of the century .... the day of ones!

copra is an amazingly sweet onion, typically long storage onions have a lot of sulfur compounds and are hot! i never ate copra before feburary as i had ACE or mars that did not store beyond january. candy was ok storage wise but doesn't keep as long as copra. so this year i was eating copra in october and shocked at just how sweet it is! candy is probably sweeter than copra but since it doesn't keep as long i only grew it 1 or 2 times.

kath · January 29, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjg911

OH NOW YOU ARE DOOMED!

you planted on the most cursed day of the century .... the day of ones!

copra is an amazingly sweet onion, typically long storage onions have a lot of sulfur compounds and are hot! i never ate copra before feburary as i had ACE or mars that did not store beyond january. candy was ok storage wise but doesn't keep as long as copra. so this year i was eating copra in october and shocked at just how sweet it is! candy is probably sweeter than copra but since it doesn't keep as long i only grew it 1 or 2 times.

I do seem to remember something about Copra getting sweeter in storage and being sweeter that the typical storage onion. I don't eat raw onions, but DH does. He puts so much in the way of condiments on anything that he eats that contains an onion that it rather amazes me that he has a preference, but they do have a pretty strong taste.

salix · January 29, 2011

Question for Tom, Yopper and Kath - is it necessary to "trim" the tops? I never have, they have never really gotten more than about 8 or 9 inches tall. That being said, they have frequently ended up with dried, twisted black leaf tips due to windburn or an unexpected quick frost. Has never seemed to hurt them or even slow them down once planted however.

tjg911 · January 29, 2011

i trim the tops when growing under the lights. i cut them back to ~ 1 1/2" when they get 3" tall. i looked at a ruler to know and would have sworn those measurements were at least 1" taller.

kath · January 30, 2011

I trimmed to keep them between 3-4" while under lights to avoid the tangly mess that used to happen, thinking that it would avoid damage to the plants when trying to separate them at planting time. I was afraid to trim shorter than that, but now that I see tjg911's post, shorter would be even easier.
I remember reading that it helped them recover from transplanting if you trim a bit of the roots at transplant time, but it seems they must lose some roots in the detangling process.
Keep in mind I'm far from an onion expert!

yopper · January 30, 2011

SALIX If you asking about trimming after you set them out in the garden,imo that would be a bad idea.When you trim them as seedlings they will develope more new leaves and make the stem thicker.Each leaf makes a ring on the bulb.More leaves bigger bulb!! I agree with Tom on how to trim. YOPPER

fortyonenorth · February 9, 2011

Found this regarding day-length sensitivity at the seedling stage -

"Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets."

The whole article is from University of Minnesota here: http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardand...h247onion.html

tjg911 · February 10, 2011

[quote=fortyonenorth;198858]"Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets."quote]

i disagree but you do what you think is best.

i have grown onions from seed under lights for 6 or 7 years and i always have my lights on 16 hours off 8. never have i seen any problem with the seedlings bulbing! now it is true that outside in early to mid june the 15+ hour days trigger bulb formation but that's for a plant that is maturing, one that has been growing outside for 2 months.

i wouldn't worry about using 12 vs 16 hours under the lights. you will save money (pennies) on your electric bill but if you have other plants under lights then they need the 16 hours. initially i have only onions but after a month or 5 weeks there other plants and with each passing week more varieties of vegetables are under lights. i wouldn't fool around with them especially as the onions don't have any problems with 16 hours.

RayR · February 10, 2011

I agree, I don't think the seedlings much care how long the lights are on at the early stages. They are pretty slow growing the first few months indoors and seem to be more into building their root structure and the first few true leaves. I never paid much attention to how long the lights were on, as long as they are healthy and happy by the time they go outside to get hardened off and into the ground, let nature take over and they bulb fine.

January 27, 2011	#17
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	yeah i agree my plants are not all that big re diameter when i plant out. many are ~ 3/16" but many are 1/16" or 1/8" in diameter. they grow tall and i cut them back when they get to 5" back down to 3" under the lights and i fertilize only 2 or 3 times under the lights. mine go out 4/15 or so and harvest is aug 7 to 10 for copra and red wing. i wouldn't worry that the plants are not big like many other from seed plants, onions do just fine. what i wouldn't do is direct seed we do not have the time for that in day long growing areas. __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

January 29, 2011	#24
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	i trim the tops when growing under the lights. i cut them back to ~ 1 1/2" when they get 3" tall. i looked at a ruler to know and would have sworn those measurements were at least 1" taller. __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

February 10, 2011	#28
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	[quote=fortyonenorth;198858]"Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets."quote] i disagree but you do what you think is best. i have grown onions from seed under lights for 6 or 7 years and i always have my lights on 16 hours off 8. never have i seen any problem with the seedlings bulbing! now it is true that outside in early to mid june the 15+ hour days trigger bulb formation but that's for a plant that is maturing, one that has been growing outside for 2 months. i wouldn't worry about using 12 vs 16 hours under the lights. you will save money (pennies) on your electric bill but if you have other plants under lights then they need the 16 hours. initially i have only onions but after a month or 5 weeks there other plants and with each passing week more varieties of vegetables are under lights. i wouldn't fool around with them especially as the onions don't have any problems with 16 hours. __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

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January 27, 2011	#16
salix Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: north central B.C. Posts: 2,310	Kath, last year I started seed for all of my Alliums on 1 March. They were moved out to the unheated garage (still under lights, tho') on 18 March, at which point they did indeed look like little grass sprouts. By the way, I sort of do a dense type of sowing, but in short rows in fairly deep containers. OK, OK, they are Costco salad containers with holes punched in the bottom and are at least 6 years old!! At that point they had probably been watered at least once with dilute seaweed or manure tea. On 25 March they were put outside in a sheltered spot for an hour to start the hardening off process. By 31 March they were left out all day and overnight, even though the temperatures were only about1 degree above freezing. They were sheltered under a walkway, and sheltered from any strong north winds. Brought them in on 9 April because temps went down to -9C. Warmed up a bit the next day and at that point took them from under the walkway and started to harden them off to bright sunlight. Were probably getting watered once a week with the diluted compost tea. They were planted in-ground on 18 May at our remote garden which is zone 2 (and was still freezing some nights). At that point they are about the size of chives with only 2 or 3 leaves. I think having to cope with the cold temperatures keeps them "compact". I plant them on 6" centres and keep 'em well weeded. No fertilizing done, just the raised beds amended with compost before planting. Harvested on 7 September, good size and great condition, after having endured several light frosty nights. I just give them a quick rinse (weather had been quite rainy so they were muddy) and let them dry outside under shelter for a couple of days. I bring them in at night, always afraid wandering bears will find them irresistable. As of today, they are still in perfect condition - I store them in open flat boxes in the unheated garage - so far this year it has only gotten down to +1 C out there, if it seems that it might freeze (only if it gets to -40 C with a wind) I would bring them inside. I expect them to remain in good condition for another couple of months, then I will deal with them (freeze or dehydrate, or make onion marmalade) because by then I will need those shelves for this years transplants. And that's my Allium circle-of-life, LOL! My main point in this rambling post was to let you know not to worry about the size of your seedlings. I'm sure they'll be just fine.

January 29, 2011	#18
yopper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: U.P. Michigan Posts: 91	I have leeks growig in a south window that I planted 1/1/11 and trimed them yesterday. I don't start my onions any more[I BUY PLANTS ] but when I did I started them early feb. and they were so small that they were a pain to plant with my old numb fingers. Here I try to plant out the last of april and they usually get a snow or two on them. Candy is my main onion and some will store till the new crop is ready to eat.[ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion. YOPPER

January 30, 2011	#25
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	I trimmed to keep them between 3-4" while under lights to avoid the tangly mess that used to happen, thinking that it would avoid damage to the plants when trying to separate them at planting time. I was afraid to trim shorter than that, but now that I see tjg911's post, shorter would be even easier. I remember reading that it helped them recover from transplanting if you trim a bit of the roots at transplant time, but it seems they must lose some roots in the detangling process. Keep in mind I'm far from an onion expert!

February 9, 2011	#27
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Found this regarding day-length sensitivity at the seedling stage - "Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets." The whole article is from University of Minnesota here: http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardand...h247onion.html

February 10, 2011	#29
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,464	I agree, I don't think the seedlings much care how long the lights are on at the early stages. They are pretty slow growing the first few months indoors and seem to be more into building their root structure and the first few true leaves. I never paid much attention to how long the lights were on, as long as they are healthy and happy by the time they go outside to get hardened off and into the ground, let nature take over and they bulb fine.