Carmello---French market variety?

SpookyShoe · March 22, 2017

Nice looking plant. Live Oaks are producing pollen right now. Ground is covered with it.

sjamesNorway · March 22, 2017

Not sure whether you're asking a question. It's originally an F1 hybrid from France, introduced in the states by Renee Shepherd as Crimson Carmello. There's also an OP variety: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Carmello I don't know which you have. I have seeds for the F1, but haven't found space for it because of all the heirlooms I want to try. Will be interested in hearing how it does for you.

Steve

SpookyShoe · March 22, 2017

Thanks.

MarlynnMarcks · March 23, 2017

I don't know if my Carmello was hybrid or not. It was from Shepherd Seeds. I planted it in all the odd and wrong places (including unamended clay close to other plants) and other than a Tomato Boomer, didn't fertilize or water. It produced constantly and required no care. No diseases either. The taste was a little different from the usual red tomato taste, but nice. Hope you have the same luck with it as I did.l

SpookyShoe · March 25, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlynnMarcks

I don't know if my Carmello was hybrid or not. It was from Shepherd Seeds. I planted it in all the odd and wrong places (including unamended clay close to other plants) and other than a Tomato Boomer, didn't fertilize or water. It produced constantly and required no care. No diseases either. The taste was a little different from the usual red tomato taste, but nice. Hope you have the same luck with it as I did.l

It is a purchased plant. Normally the tag will say if something is an heirloom. The tag didn't say, so I assume it's the hybrid. The plant looks great and has flowers.

Donna

cwavec · March 26, 2017

Carmello was introduced in the US by Renee Shepherd of Shepherd's
Garden seeds, at the time, as "French Tomatoes Carmello". In 1999
it was described more succinctly on the back of the packet as "Item #3080
Carmello Tomato". There was no mention of it being crimson or of that
designation having or not having anything to do with the variety of seeds
provided. It was also described as "Disease-resistant hybrid".

After the company was sold and she restarted as Renee's Garden, she sold
a "Top Flavor Tomato Crimson Carmello". It is at this stage (2002 or
thereabout) that the "Crimson" designation came into being. In another
spot it is designated as "Crimson Carmello F-1 Tomato".

So these two are the variations that were available in the US, at least
in name. Whether they are the same or not, well, ask Renee. Keep in
mind that seed companies often introduce changes in a variety name
to avoid trademark and licensing issues.

The so-called "OP" version is probably bogus. It is described in Tatiana's
as a "de-hybridized version of a French hybrid tomato". For one thing,
that is always touchy as to whether any competent or diligent
dehybridization actually was carried out and just who is making such a
claim. The source shown for this seed in 2017 is Reimer Seeds and in
earlier years as Tomatofest, both of which can be considered at best as
less than reliable in their designations and claims.

Renee still sells Crimson Carmello and still describes it as a "top flavor
tomato". She also says explicitly in her publicity that Crimson Carmello was
"bred in France especially for fresh eating" and that it is an F1. Of the three companies, Renee's Garden is the only one I would trust to be accurate on
these points.

There is also a Carmello F1 widely sold in Europe, not described as being
crimson. Considering how difficult it is to actually produce a well-conceived
F1 hybrid, I consider it unlikely that there would be very many with the
same name or, in this case, more than one. My guess is that Crimson
Carmello F1 and Carmello F1 are the same thing and that there is a good
likelihood of them also being the same as the hybriid that was on the
market in 1999 and earlier. But - ask Renee.

hornstrider · March 26, 2017

I am growing one Carmello plant this year. It is the only plant I purchased from a nursery. The rest of my 43 plants were started from seed including 3 Dona plants with seed I received form cwavec. (Thank you Stephen!!!!!) Can someone give me a taste, and production review of Carmello, and Dona F1.

cwavec · March 26, 2017

@hornstrider

Larry,
I tried Carmello years ago and didn't do very well with it. The tomatoes were
very tiny and the skin was almost like leather. Not the fault of the variety.
The plants were at the end of the row and after the season was over,
I discovered that a walnut tree about 50 feet distant had sent one root
into the bed and, although it didn't kill the plant sure made it look funny.

Since then I haven't gone back to it, not because I wouldn't but just
because there have been so many other things to try.

Judging from the generally high opinions about it, I would certainly
encourage anyone to go ahead and may even find the energy to try
it again myself. The garden has been moved and the walnut cut down
so I guess I'd be alright there!

Suggest you look out for nursery grown plants. Unless they explicitly said
it was an F1, it's probably a bogus OP and so your experience might
be entirely different from what it ought to be.

SpookyShoe · March 26, 2017

Thanks for all the info!

Donna

greenthumbomaha · May 10, 2017

I don't know which variety I have, but this is one of my more tall and brash seedlings. One review said it was compact indet , another described it as burly. How tall was your plant ultimately, assuming no pruning?

- Lisa

gdaddybill · May 11, 2017

I grew some last year. The plants were huge, production good, flavor just okay. Maybe I pushed them too hard and we had a lot of rain.

hornstrider · May 11, 2017

I pick my first Carmello tomato last week. It was very good. I had it w/ a salad. I picked my second, and third last night. Carmello, and Indian Stripe are early producers, and Cherokee Purple is not far behind. I also had my first Wes tomato last night....very impressive,

Nan_PA_6b · May 11, 2017

My sister is growing Crimson Carmello f1 from Rene', in a container, in disease country, so it'll be included in my year-end review.

Nan

Gardeneer · May 11, 2017

Is there a variety by the name of CamellA ?
If I remember it correctly , it is an OP !

Ant relation between the two ?

oakley · May 12, 2017

A bit confusing. I grew it years ago back when i just had the one main tomato bed.
At that time i was just ordering from TGS and Johnny's and the odd packet from a
Nursery.
I'm guessing it was from TGS.
This was when i only started 2-3 seeds of each variety, planting one or two. Meaning,
the memory is very clear. For me Carmello was a sturdy plant, you could call it robust
in shape, not tall. Just bigger than a golfball and dark orange/red, not at all 'tomato red'

I grew it for 4-5 yrs until out of seed. Was never a favorite but being seed frugal back
then i used them up.

I did love the flavor but not the texture. Thick skinned and watery/jelly-like. Not mushy.
If was one of the first i started freezing whole for juice, BloodyMarys, gazpacho, etc.
Thawed to icy state, then off to the blender. Not a texture i like fresh.

I doubt i received the wrong seed knowing TomatoGowerSupply. Nice to see an oldie but
goodie mentioned again...

March 23, 2017	#4
MarlynnMarcks Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Port St Lucie, Florida Posts: 180	I grew Carmello in Michigan I don't know if my Carmello was hybrid or not. It was from Shepherd Seeds. I planted it in all the odd and wrong places (including unamended clay close to other plants) and other than a Tomato Boomer, didn't fertilize or water. It produced constantly and required no care. No diseases either. The taste was a little different from the usual red tomato taste, but nice. Hope you have the same luck with it as I did.l

March 26, 2017	#6
cwavec Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2016 Location: PA - 5b Posts: 92	Carmello variations Carmello was introduced in the US by Renee Shepherd of Shepherd's Garden seeds, at the time, as "French Tomatoes Carmello". In 1999 it was described more succinctly on the back of the packet as "Item #3080 Carmello Tomato". There was no mention of it being crimson or of that designation having or not having anything to do with the variety of seeds provided. It was also described as "Disease-resistant hybrid". After the company was sold and she restarted as Renee's Garden, she sold a "Top Flavor Tomato Crimson Carmello". It is at this stage (2002 or thereabout) that the "Crimson" designation came into being. In another spot it is designated as "Crimson Carmello F-1 Tomato". So these two are the variations that were available in the US, at least in name. Whether they are the same or not, well, ask Renee. Keep in mind that seed companies often introduce changes in a variety name to avoid trademark and licensing issues. The so-called "OP" version is probably bogus. It is described in Tatiana's as a "de-hybridized version of a French hybrid tomato". For one thing, that is always touchy as to whether any competent or diligent dehybridization actually was carried out and just who is making such a claim. The source shown for this seed in 2017 is Reimer Seeds and in earlier years as Tomatofest, both of which can be considered at best as less than reliable in their designations and claims. Renee still sells Crimson Carmello and still describes it as a "top flavor tomato". She also says explicitly in her publicity that Crimson Carmello was "bred in France especially for fresh eating" and that it is an F1. Of the three companies, Renee's Garden is the only one I would trust to be accurate on these points. There is also a Carmello F1 widely sold in Europe, not described as being crimson. Considering how difficult it is to actually produce a well-conceived F1 hybrid, I consider it unlikely that there would be very many with the same name or, in this case, more than one. My guess is that Crimson Carmello F1 and Carmello F1 are the same thing and that there is a good likelihood of them also being the same as the hybriid that was on the market in 1999 and earlier. But - ask Renee.

May 11, 2017	#14
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,909	Is there a variety by the name of CamellA ? If I remember it correctly , it is an OP ! Ant relation between the two ? __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

March 22, 2017	#2
sjamesNorway Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 1,049	Not sure whether you're asking a question. It's originally an F1 hybrid from France, introduced in the states by Renee Shepherd as Crimson Carmello. There's also an OP variety: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Carmello I don't know which you have. I have seeds for the F1, but haven't found space for it because of all the heirlooms I want to try. Will be interested in hearing how it does for you. Steve

March 22, 2017	#3
SpookyShoe Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: El Lago, Texas Posts: 1,100	Thanks.

March 26, 2017	#7
hornstrider Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hutto, Texas Posts: 230	I am growing one Carmello plant this year. It is the only plant I purchased from a nursery. The rest of my 43 plants were started from seed including 3 Dona plants with seed I received form cwavec. (Thank you Stephen!!!!!) Can someone give me a taste, and production review of Carmello, and Dona F1.

May 10, 2017	#10
greenthumbomaha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Omaha Zone 5 Posts: 2,514	I don't know which variety I have, but this is one of my more tall and brash seedlings. One review said it was compact indet , another described it as burly. How tall was your plant ultimately, assuming no pruning? - Lisa

May 11, 2017	#11
gdaddybill Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Burton, TX Posts: 294	I grew some last year. The plants were huge, production good, flavor just okay. Maybe I pushed them too hard and we had a lot of rain.

May 11, 2017	#13
Nan_PA_6b Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 3,194	My sister is growing Crimson Carmello f1 from Rene', in a container, in disease country, so it'll be included in my year-end review. Nan

May 12, 2017	#15
oakley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NewYork 5a Posts: 2,303	A bit confusing. I grew it years ago back when i just had the one main tomato bed. At that time i was just ordering from TGS and Johnny's and the odd packet from a Nursery. I'm guessing it was from TGS. This was when i only started 2-3 seeds of each variety, planting one or two. Meaning, the memory is very clear. For me Carmello was a sturdy plant, you could call it robust in shape, not tall. Just bigger than a golfball and dark orange/red, not at all 'tomato red' I grew it for 4-5 yrs until out of seed. Was never a favorite but being seed frugal back then i used them up. I did love the flavor but not the texture. Thick skinned and watery/jelly-like. Not mushy. If was one of the first i started freezing whole for juice, BloodyMarys, gazpacho, etc. Thawed to icy state, then off to the blender. Not a texture i like fresh. I doubt i received the wrong seed knowing TomatoGowerSupply. Nice to see an oldie but goodie mentioned again...