Another case of copyright violation...

[Sherry_AK]

Photos are here too...

http://cubits.org/salsagarden/db/tom...base/index.php

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Folks, is it possible to insert a line of text in the copyrighted photos (bottom right or left) with the copyright statement? Too bad it is needed, but it can greatly reduce theft. Most photo software allow text to be saved on top of a photo.

Scott,

Photo software also allows you to crop out the copyright overlay, so won't discourage a thief or reduce theft. There are other photo editing (and online) solutions to photo theft, but it would be nice to keep it simple.
I'm not concerned when someone uses my photos in a blog, but when a competing vendor uses them, without a please or thank you, it should be addressed. In Reimer's case, it seems obvious they are aware of the copyright laws, but are using their customers as the scapegoats for their theft. Maybe that is what is most disturbing.

Steve

[remy]

Reimer's rating on The Garden Watchdog is very poor.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/1681/
I'm surprised they wrote back to you Tatiana.
Remy

[Tania]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Folks, is it possible to insert a line of text in the copyrighted photos (bottom right or left) with the copyright statement? Too bad it is needed, but it can greatly reduce theft. Most photo software allow text to be saved on top of a photo.

Some people do that, and the thieves will just crop the picture to remove the copyright note.

The issue is that seed vendors ***should be*** very well aware of the copyright and not break the law.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by remy

Reimer's rating on The Garden Watchdog is very poor.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/1681/
I'm surprised they wrote back to you Tatiana.
Remy

Remy,

I think the reason I got a reply to my first email is because earlier this year they asked me to include their listings to TOMATObase. Which I did. Unfortunately it did not occur to me at that time to check the watchdog rating - well, even if I had done that, I probably would have given them a benefit of the doubt, not having any personal experience with them myself. Back then I only saw 1 picture (Suze's) they used, and I sent them a message about that.

I used that fact in my email, stating how shocked I was to discover the pictures taken from TOMATObase after I basically gave them free advertising. I think this may have been a reason I 'deserved' a reply.

I have not yet got a response to my 2nd email - hopefully tomorrow?

I think I should have learnt the lesson by now that not every tomato seed vendor can be trusted by default. First it was Dr. Tomato, and now Reimer. Too many already, in my opinion! We need more seed vendors but not like these guys.

Tania

[ScottinAtlanta]

Originally Posted by Heritage

Scott,

Photo software also allows you to crop out the copyright overlay, so won't discourage a thief or reduce theft. There are other photo editing (and online) solutions to photo theft, but it would be nice to keep it simple.
I'm not concerned when someone uses my photos in a blog, but when a competing vendor uses them, without a please or thank you, it should be addressed. In Reimer's case, it seems obvious they are aware of the copyright laws, but are using their customers as the scapegoats for their theft. Maybe that is what is most disturbing.

Steve

It helps a good deal. We have a professional website that is often copied, and adding copyright statements has reduced theft by almost 100%. Most people are honest, and won't steal if they know the item is someone elses. Remember that, in this case, the photos were passed from hand to hand, and the original source was lost.

Most thieves are casual thieves and will not take the time to crop photos. When you see a photo with the copyright cropped out, then you have a real legal case.

Mark your photos! Cheap, easy, and effective.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by Sherry_AK

Photos are here too...

http://cubits.org/salsagarden/db/tom...base/index.php

Sherry,

Looks like these folks follow TOMATObase copyright, so it is OK.
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/T...ase:Copyrights

Tania

[Tania]

Scott,

The copyright violators in seed business always crop the photos. I know that for a fact as I saw these stolen and cropped pictures myself.

Tania

[ScottinAtlanta]

Then that is prima facie evidence of theft. Greatly strengthens your case. All I can say is that marking our copyrights on materials was an effective approach for us.

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

It helps a good deal. We have a professional website that is often copied, and adding copyright statements has reduced theft by almost 100%. Most people are honest, and won't steal if they know the item is someone elses. Remember that, in this case, the photos were passed from hand to hand, and the original source was lost.

Scott, most people ARE honest. We are talking about Reimer Seeds. They are not naive, this is not their first offense. With Google's new Image Search you only need drag a photo into the search box to find out where else it is found on the web. They have no valid excuse to not know the true owners of any photo submitted by their customers.

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Most thieves are casual thieves and will not take the time to crop photos. When you see a photo with the copyright cropped out, then you have a real legal case.

Not true... cropping takes a few seconds and is very common - especially with art photos or photos of very specific subjects (such as heirloom tomatoes) that cannot be purchased cheaply on a stock site, but are usable at web resolution. As far as a legal case goes, Reimers has already placed the blame on their customers, so I doubt they are concerned with legalities.

Steve

[Heritage]

btw, Scott... you are well spoken, it would be great if you would send Reimer an email on the subject.

mail at reimerseeds dot com

Thanks
Steve

[fortyonenorth]

As evidenced by their actions, Reimer doesn't care that they're infringing on your copyright. If you're willing to have a lawyer draft a terse letter, I bet the won't repeat the offense - at least not with your images. In my experience that's the only thing that works with these types.

Regarding the GNU Free License - I think those who are not familiar with GNU assume "Free" to mean...well, free, i.e. public domain. If you want to take a first step towards protecting your images and descriptions, get rid of GNU and allow your work the full protection of copyright. It won't eliminate all the filching, but it will give you a firm legal standing if you need to go that route. I'm not certain that the provisions of GNU have been tested in the courts, so I don't know how well it would hold up under these circumstances.

[Tania]

I think the GNU license is very appropriate for TOMATObase. After all, this is an informational resource, and it is OK for people to copy the materials, as long as they comply with the terms and conditions and these are NOT used for business purpose.

I have my photos shared with many tomato folks around the world, they appear on some tomato websites, facebook pages, and personal blogs, and this is perfectly OK with me.

What is not OK is when a business steals the photos ignoring all the terms and conditions. And Reimer did it so many times, and there is no guarantee they will stop doing it, even if they remove the pictures that we asked them to remove.

I still did not receive a response to my second email, and three Suze's pictures are still there. Too bad! A few more days, and I may be ready for more action.

Steve, which ones of your pictures are still there? I would like to add it to my list.

Tania

[Tania]

Slightly off topic... about the new goodle image search feature - it is so cool!
I love how it finds 'visually similar' images

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi...w=889&bih=1076

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi...g&ved=0CD4Q9Q8

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi...A&ved=0CD4Q9Q8

[Heritage]

Tania,

Reimer didn't reply to my email, but they promptly removed the two photos I asked them to remove. Thanks for the heads-up.

Steve