Rock Dust?

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by kath

Sorry, Glenn- just reread the thread and found that the answer was in a previous post. We're going to hit a couple of quarries today and see what happens.

kath

kath, please update if you were successful in your quest for rock dust and any details about the experience you would care to share. I think this is a very underutilized resource in this country. Because it is a waste product from non fertilizer selling companies and because it does not need to be used year after year there seems to be very little vested interest in spreading its use. If it does provide benefits as reported we should spread the word.

Glenn

[roper2008]

Here is some more info. I bought some azomite last year.


http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...Emperors+chair

[pdxwindjammer]

I just called a rock quarry to see if they have rock dust. The guy said that the rock dust turns to mud when it rains and they don't keep it under cover. He said he has "scalpings", which is about the consistency of sand and that "I wouldn't believe what would grow out of it!". He said he uses it on his lawn and he has the healthiest lawn around. $2 a ton but said if I just want a couple of 5 gallon buckets, he will give it to me for free.

Will "scalpings" work as well as dust or are the particles just too big? The rock is Oregon Basalt.

what do you think?

[kath]

Originally Posted by COMPOSTER

kath, please update if you were successful in your quest for rock dust and any details about the experience you would care to share. I think this is a very underutilized resource in this country. Because it is a waste product from non fertilizer selling companies and because it does not need to be used year after year there seems to be very little vested interest in spreading its use. If it does provide benefits as reported we should spread the word.

Glenn

Some unexpected family stuff prevented our trip and is keeping us busy so rock dust is on the back burner for now, but I'll share what happens when we get around to it.

kath

[Smithma]

I purchased 10 pounds of Micronized azomite from a website Root Naturialy, free shipping. Will be spreading later this winter after the winter crops come out. I also spread some glacial rock dust last spring, but I changed to many other things this spring to really know the results. Using castings, kelp and worm tea.

[KarenO]

I don't want to rain on the rock dust parade but Are there any scientific studies or proven evidence of the benefit ? Seems to me that something so apparently beneficial would be interesting to those who do real soil science field trials under controlled circumstances and with scientific protocols. Are there any negative effects ? Does it depend on the type of rock and the crops in question ? The state of the soil prior, other additives and fertilizers in use.... On an on. So many other variables involved. I read the links and although the anecdotes are interesting i do not find them convincing from the perspective of science and I would caution people to test your own soil properly and correct deficiencies as they are revealed rather than adding "Nutrients" ad lib with no basis aside from an article or two on the internet. You can't get it back out once it's there, ask other tomatoville members who have inadvertently added herbicide contaminated manure as an example of a soil additive that should have been beneficial.
I find this interesting don't get me wrong but for me and my beautiful clay-loam soil the jury is still out and will stay out until I see multiple scientific studies showing clear benefit that outweighs any negatives.
KarenO

[pdxwindjammer]

I have done hours of research on remineralizing soil and I am convinced that it will provide more nutritious vegetables. It provides minerals, which help the plant take in more nutrients. I am using it now and will see if it makes a difference.

This is not herbicide or pesticide. It is finely ground rock. Can't see how it would be harmful in any way. I don't remember if I provided this link in my original thread but I would encourage you to watch some of the videos within - http://remineralize.org/

[Doug9345]

I've got to do some reading on it. I guess the reason I'm like Karen, skeptical, is that the term rock dust just covers too much territory. Your rock dust is Oregon basalt, my rock dust most likely would be limestone, otherwise known as ag lime.

On the other hand I know the soil around a volcano grows grew stuff so I'm trying to wrap my head around the ideal. If I still had access to a dump truck I'd go get some and try it.

[KarenO]

To each their own and I choose science. I believe in soil testing and proper application calculated by weight per square footage of the recommended amounts of reliably sourced and pure agricultural amendments such as lime, sulphur, phosphorus, etc. all of which are approved for use in certified organic gardens. Experienced gardeners here using rock dust or other unconventional additives can do their own thing but I definitely recommend to new gardeners to have their soil tested professionally before adding anything other than compost which is the only thing that in my opinion you can never have too much of.
KarenO

[pdxwindjammer]

I have been gardening for many years, Karen, and I am going to give it a shot. I already have. I bought a 50 lb bag og Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust and I have already applied it to part of my plot. I am also going to do a pot test, i.e., put soil in two pots, throw in some radish seeds and see which one out performs.

[COMPOSTER]

I respect everybodies opinion on this so far. But. I would be sceptical of a lot of so called scientific research. Way to much agricultural science today is influenced by grants to big ag schools. Guess where those grants are coming from? I'm guessing chemical and seed companies. Or perhaps they are one in the same. Also, as a dedicated composter I try to read everything I can on the subject. I have come across several well respected gardeners/ farmers/soil scientist who do believe you can in fact use too much compost. And in fact you are looking to increase Soil organic matter close to the 5-6% range in most soils. After that you are just trying to maintain that level.

Glenn

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by pdxwindjammer

I just called a rock quarry to see if they have rock dust. The guy said that the rock dust turns to mud when it rains and they don't keep it under cover. He said he has "scalpings", which is about the consistency of sand and that "I wouldn't believe what would grow out of it!". He said he uses it on his lawn and he has the healthiest lawn around. $2 a ton but said if I just want a couple of 5 gallon buckets, he will give it to me for free.

Will "scalpings" work as well as dust or are the particles just too big? The rock is Oregon Basalt.

what do you think?

Info from the remineralize.org

In the book The Survival of Civilization, John Hamaker suggests finely-ground glacial gravel because that is nature's way throughout millennia to create fertile soils. Glacial gravel, which is a natural mixture of rocks, will create a broad spectrum of minerals in the soil in a natural balance.
Compost and gravel dust are a symbiotic combination: the compost provides an excellent medium for the "microorganism population explosion" promoted by the dust, and the gravel dust will not only help create more organic matter, but will also help hold it in place, reduce odors and conserve it.
The more finely ground the rock, the more readily microorganisms will have access to the minerals. John Hamaker uses the term "gravel dust" to mean a dust "90% of which will pass through a 200-mesh screen."
Sometimes the gravel pits have mesh screens and can measure the exact fineness of the gravel. Though it may be hard to find the ideal fineness - 90% passing through a minus #200-mesh screen - it may be practical to use even if only 20% or so passes through a minus #200-mesh screen and at least 50% passes through a #100-mesh screen. You will have the finer material immediately available to the soil and the rest will break down over time. If most of it passes through a minus #200-mesh screen, it will have a fine consistency like flour or cement. The gravel pit may have machinery to crush the rock finer and may crush it for you."

Hope this helps.
Glenn

[pdxwindjammer]

This is an update to my post last year. I used my Gaia Green glacial rock dust on 1 community garden plot. The other one I didn't. Other than that, the dust was the only variable. I spread manure over both of my plots, sprinkled with glacial rock dust and then heavily mulched it with chopped up leaves to prevent week growth.

I planted both plots and there is a obvious difference in the veggies I planted in the plot with Gaia Green. My tomato plants are bigger and more lush, my beets are out of this world gorgeous with big leaves that have absolutely NO sign of any bugs munching on them compared to the other plot, my Swiss chard and Cabbage are also more healthy looking and I haven't had any gray aphids on my cabbage in that plot, which I do in the other one.

I am really blown away by what a difference it made and I am now a believer in the glacial rock dust!! I only used about 2 lbs of my glacial rock dust. It is a very fine powder, like talcum powder. This bag should last me for many years!

I will report back once I have ripe tomatoes and get a taste of the ones grown with glacial rock dust.

[drbobintx]

Originally Posted by KarenO

I don't want to rain on the rock dust parade but Are there any scientific studies or proven evidence of the benefit ? Seems to me that something so apparently beneficial would be interesting to those who do real soil science field trials under controlled circumstances and with scientific protocols. Are there any negative effects ? Does it depend on the type of rock and the crops in question ? The state of the soil prior, other additives and fertilizers in use.... On an on. So many other variables involved. I read the links and although the anecdotes are interesting i do not find them convincing from the perspective of science and I would caution people to test your own soil properly and correct deficiencies as they are revealed rather than adding "Nutrients" ad lib with no basis aside from an article or two on the internet. You can't get it back out once it's there, ask other tomatoville members who have inadvertently added herbicide contaminated manure as an example of a soil additive that should have been beneficial.
I find this interesting don't get me wrong but for me and my beautiful clay-loam soil the jury is still out and will stay out until I see multiple scientific studies showing clear benefit that outweighs any negatives.
KarenO

Karen, I tend to think you are right. I am also very skeptical.

Scientists devote their lives to address these kinds of issues. They also have financial incentives to find new strategies in horticulture to increase productivity and food quality. At universities and federally-funded research facilities, they publicly disseminate this information through peer-reviewed publications. Not all scientists are unbiased, actually most are biased to some degree, but the community isn't. Eventually the community comes to a consensus. Based on my google scholar search, it seems to community doesn't think much about rock dust. See this paper, for example: http://kenniswerkplaatsnoordoostfrys...port-final.pdf

I'm not saying that rock dust doesn't have any effect, but I'm confident it isn't very significant.

[Worth1]

Wow I just saw a picture of a shale outcrop on Mars.
Shale used to be mud.

Worth