garden lime

[encore]

just picked up some mayville garden lime from menards on the way home from the DRs. don't know if this is the right kind to use for the rain gutter grown system soil mix or not, it's called mayville garden lime zone89-89 quarry lime, whatever that means, lol calcium 22%----magnesium 12%---total neutralizing powder 102%, in terms of calcium carbonate. what ever that means? anyone know what that all means and if that would be fine for the rain gutter grow systen soil mix? thanks---tom

[luigiwu]

If it says Garden Lime AND you got it in the garden center then there should be no worries.

[Worth1]

Garden lime = calcium carbonate.

[dfollett]

I was going to start a thread with a question about Garden lime, but thanks, I'll piggyback here. I use it in peat mixes for containers. I understand it's purpose - to reduce the acidity of the mix - especially to help control BER.

Now my question : Do you need to add lime to a peat based mix that will be used for potting up and growing seedlings to the point they are ready to plant out or put into a larger pot? Do you need it when you are not going to grow to the fruit stage in the mix? Does the acidity harm the basic plant at that stage?

Actually, that was three questions, but thanks for the answers.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by dfollett

I was going to start a thread with a question about Garden lime, but thanks, I'll piggyback here. I use it in peat mixes for containers. I understand it's purpose - to reduce the acidity of the mix - especially to help control BER.

Now my question : Do you need to add lime to a peat based mix that will be used for potting up and growing seedlings to the point they are ready to plant out or put into a larger pot? Do you need it when you are not going to grow to the fruit stage in the mix? Does the acidity harm the basic plant at that stage?

Actually, that was three questions, but thanks for the answers.

Well they wont grow if the pH isn't right.
There I answered all three.

Worth

[roper2008]

Originally Posted by dfollett

I was going to start a thread with a question about Garden lime, but thanks, I'll piggyback here. I use it in peat mixes for containers. I understand it's purpose - to reduce the acidity of the mix - especially to help control BER.

Now my question : Do you need to add lime to a peat based mix that will be used for potting up and growing seedlings to the point they are ready to plant out or put into a larger pot? Do you need it when you are not going to grow to the fruit stage in the mix? Does the acidity harm the basic plant at that stage?

Actually, that was three questions, but thanks for the answers.

I use pro-mix for my seedlings. I don't use any lime until they go into their permanent
home in the spring, usually in containers.

[TheUrbanFarmer]

Originally Posted by roper2008

I use pro-mix for my seedlings. I don't use any lime until they go into their permanent
home in the spring, usually in containers.

That is because pro-mix has already been balanced for pH with lime. Check the label. Most pro-mix variants use a combination of dolomite and calcitic lime.

[AlittleSalt]

The general rules I follow with PH

Tomatoes like 6.0-6.8 PH
Potatoes like 5.5-6.5 PH
Leafy Veges like 6.5-7.2 PH

All three grow fine in my garden, so that's about all the info I've looked up on those. The reason for adding amendments like lime is to get the preferred PH levels you need.

For 4 years now, I've told myself that I want to plant our potatoes in an area 50' away from our garden where the soil is 5.5PH. And for the forth year, I forgot. I need to see if I can find a few seed potatoes tomorrow to give it a shot.

[UFXEFU]

Originally Posted by encore

just picked up some mayville garden lime from menards on the way home from the DRs. don't know if this is the right kind to use for the rain gutter grown system soil mix or not, it's called mayville garden lime zone89-89 quarry lime, whatever that means, lol calcium 22%----magnesium 12%---total neutralizing powder 102%, in terms of calcium carbonate. what ever that means? anyone know what that all means and if that would be fine for the rain gutter grow systen soil mix? thanks---tom

The main purpose of garden lime is to raise the pH of the soil. Blindly adding garden lime is not a good practice. Only add lime to soil if your pH is too low and you want to raise the pH.

Rain gutter grow system soil mix.... I have no idea what that is, but if you want to raise the pH it will most likely work.

[encore]

larry hall the creator of the raingutter growing system, got back with me and said that's the exact same lime he uses, so i'm good to go. the soil mix i refer to is what he uses, pretty much--peat---compost---perlite--lime--a bit of epsom salts, and 10-10-10 fertilizer around top edge of bucket. ----tom (thanks for all the responses)

[TheUrbanFarmer]

Well, based on the Ca:Mg ratio - that standard 2:1 - that is likely dolomite limestone.

If you are chasing that golden ratio of 7:1 to 10:1 Ca:Mg - dolomite will never get you there before you end up with too much Mg and locking out K. Ideally, you want your soil to have about 65% calcium...which comes from many different sources outside of your liming amendments.

You are better off going with a more pure calcium carbonate source like oyster shell flour (western US) or aragonite (eastern US). These amendments can impact soils positively for up to 5 years where a standard ag lime or dolomite is often applied yearly to control pH.

Where I live the native soils are sandy loam and therefore tend to leach Mg rather quickly. I offset this by using other amendments like gypsum and sul-po-mag.

Given the media you say you are using, you can assume, 1c of lime per cu ft of peat moss to bring the pH into the proper range.

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by TheUrbanFarmer

Well, based on the Ca:Mg ratio - that standard 2:1 - that is likely dolomite limestone.

If you are chasing that golden ratio of 7:1 to 10:1 Ca:Mg - dolomite will never get you there before you end up with too much Mg and locking out K. Ideally, you want your soil to have about 65% calcium...which comes from many different sources outside of your liming amendments.

You are better off going with a more pure calcium carbonate source like oyster shell flour (western US) or aragonite (eastern US). These amendments can impact soils positively for up to 5 years where a standard ag lime or dolomite is often applied yearly to control pH.

Where I live the native soils are sandy loam and therefore tend to leach Mg rather quickly. I offset this by using other amendments like gypsum and sul-po-mag.

Given the media you say you are using, you can assume, 1c of lime per cu ft of peat moss to bring the pH into the proper range.

Now we're getting somewhere.
This is what people need to look at to understand that ph is not what you are trying for.
You are balancing elements. When this is achieved, pH will go where it needs to be.
You Should not be trying to achieve a pH number and think your good to go when you get the soil to that number and just need to add fertilizer.

[Ed of Somis]

In general, I find there are some folks who enjoy doing science experiments as much as growing tomatoes. I get that it could be fun. haha. However, my "common sense" approach to vegetable gardening (and tomatoes) usually works out fine...with a little knowledge/experience mixed in. My seedlings have been growing fine with a quality potting mix or seed starter mix....either one. Part of the fun of doing anything (in my opinion) is getting better. This is where knowledge/experience/science comes in. The journey is the fun!

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

In general, I find there are some folks who enjoy doing science experiments as much as growing tomatoes. I get that it could be fun. haha. However, my "common sense" approach to vegetable gardening (and tomatoes) usually works out fine...with a little knowledge/experience mixed in. My seedlings have been growing fine with a quality potting mix or seed starter mix....either one. Part of the fun of doing anything (in my opinion) is getting better. This is where knowledge/experience/science comes in. The journey is the fun!

I agree with you. Results are results. I always say go with what works for you if u are pleased with your outcome.
However there are too many folks that struggle to get results with gardening. They usually read the regurgitated, form letter style advice to test for pH and add lime or sulfur to adjust pH as needed to get to some magic number between 6 and 7.
In reality, pH is influenced by four major cations (elements with a + charge): calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium.
Extremely high sodium will cause high pH. Potassium will influence pH even more than C or Mg!
Once all nutrients required are supplied and balanced, the pH will be right.
Or stated differently, "good" pH does not guarantee a balanced soil.

Now to the point of container mixes. Am I saying everyone needs to test their mix? No, that is probably too much for most hobbyists. But you need to consider that peat mixes have limestone added to balance the acidity of the peat. What kind of limestone? What calcium and how much are you adding? What effect will my nitrogen program have on calcium? It gets complicated in a hurry.
So, my suggestion is to ask people that have used a precise formula over the years and match that with results that you will be happy with and copy it. Don't mess with it unless you know what you are doing or want to try it on a small scale.

Urban, we are an agreement. Well said.

[jillian]

I too find lime a bit confusing, not the WHY of using it but the different forms of it. As in....dolomite, fast acting, hydrated, pelleted, powder, etc.

I finally ended up going with Espoma which is listed as dolomite on back of package, it was much more expensive for the amount but I got tired of trying to figure it all out so figured better safe than sorry. I purchased several bags as I am making loads of potting mix this year.