Over did it...pot size

[Kikaida]

Well, as I wind down my season and pulled a few plants I have a couple of observations that I'd like to share.
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My biggest pots were 30 gallon "dirt pots" which as some of you may or may not know, are fabric pots.
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Here in Southern California, I found it difficult to keep them watered correctly. The summer heat was just unrelenting. As such, one day they'd look fine, the next wilted pretty bad. And when watering after a wilt, it seems the plants do perk up but they do seem like they endure some stress as the leaves will curl for a day or two.
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Mulch helped a lot and I highly recommend it.
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As to the oversized pots, my biggest were 30 gallons and upon my postmortem uprooting of my largest plant, it did not need all of that real-estate. The main root ball was just a bit smaller than a basket ball. Sort of like those red school yard dodge balls. Yes, it had a lot of little rootlets spreading out but they weren't very prevalent. There were very few 'noodle' sized roots and those were mostly close to the center.
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This pot was pulled after not watering for about 2 weeks with major heat. The plant looked beat to death *but* when examining the soil, it was still relatively moist in the center. There was an outer band of bone dry soil and I thought the whole thing would have been that way...Not so. So that puzzled me as to why when I was watering on a 'normal' schedule, they would look so wilted and thirsty. Really hard to figure out these pots and I think next season I won't be using them. Just the pattern that they dry in coupled with a damp center...There appears to be no winning. Either underwater at the peripheries and fine at the center or fine at the peripheries and overwatered in the center...Lose, lose.
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They'll only be 4 tomatoes next year as I switch to a pepper garden so really looking forward to that!

[Ricky Shaw]

^ Good info, thank you for that.

Trying to get an idea of water usage on these pots, so let me ask you. On a very hot day how much water does a 20 gal pot take? I'm imagining like 3 or 4 gallons, more?

[Ed of Somis]

After 3 years of serious tomato container growing...I have found that my 20 gallon trash cans (Brute) are just about the right size for large indeterminates. I can barely get by with the 15 gal nursery pots (not really 15 gal) sometimes. During the summer I water once a day. Ricky...I think 3 gallons a day would be plenty (generally speaking). Of course, your planting medium and weather are the variables.

[Kikaida]

Yeah, the 20s seem to be more appropriate than the 30s. I even had some 25s which are unnecessary too.

When I fertilize my pots, I use a 2 gallon watering can with the ferts in it. Each plant pretty much got the full 2 gallons and that seemed to saturate pretty well but I did start to pre-water to get it ready to hold water versus shed it. With these fabric pots, its really hard as when the outer band is dry, water just rolls off of it and out the sides. I recommend pre-watering just to get the dry material fluffed up and ready for the "main watering" as it will more readily absorb the water. And yes, that was a great tip from a member of this board!
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Since the cores of these pots stay wet/damp/moist, even in the hottest heat, watering daily was too much. The plants would get a firm wilt which was their response to being overwatered. So it would be every other day or so. Some people here keep their fabric pots in a shallow pan filled with watering allowing the plants to capillary up the water as they need it. That would be a mosquito breeding ground for me so I can't do that.
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It just became more effort vs benefit, the amount of time I spent stressing over these plants and constantly chasing a good balance of water was just more work than pleasure. So, I'll be changing it up next season. I may put in three rows of raised beds.
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But, aside form the slicers I got, I also got 5 one gallon zip top bags in the freezer with sauce tomatoes waiting for a cold winter weekend to cook up! So there was some pay back, just not enough for the effort spent.
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I have three plants left that look horrible...But they have some hornworms on them and I figure I'd let them have um. I'll keep tending those until they're gone. A little good karma for next season.

[SharonRossy]

I agree with Ed, three gallons should be sufficient. KK, with the cloth bags, I find I have to make sure to water the perimeter, because no matter how much you think you are watering inside the perimeter doesn't always get wet. And of course, it drains very quickly. I have also found a difference in water retention based on the type of cloth bags. Some brands seem to be thicker therefore better at retaining water. And you are right, the root ball is not that large. This year my largest bags were 20 gallon and a few 15. It's trial and error, but I'm still a fan of container gardening with the grow bags.

[Ricky Shaw]

Covering a lot of good stuff here, thank you all.

I've bought some 15 and 20 gal pots to get a comparative idea and they both look small to this dirt guy, but the 15 will be my bottom limit, and the 20 will be my primary pouch.

The 15's for the determinant sauce tomatoes to save a little mix/space, and the 20's for the indeterminates.

Is everyone doing cukes and squash in the 15's and 20's?

And pole beans, does 3-5 in a 15 gal and trellis it, sound right?

[Ricky Shaw]

For reference here are some of Smart Pots recommendations. They agree on 20 gal for tomatoes. I don't get the 7gal for beans or the 15gal for cukes. I would've thought cukes to be more thirsty than tomatoes.

[SharonRossy]

Ricky, the 15 is fine for cukes. I've grown them in smaller. But generally, 15 gallon is a good size. For the tomatoes, determinants will do well in 15 gallon as well. I have used 25 gallon for indeterminants, but like I said, this year I went with 20 gallon. As Sue mentioned, mulching is very helpful and recommended. Also, as stated earlier, the more you water, the more frequently you will have to fertilize even though you have ferts in the mix. I don't fertilze my cukes that much and they do just fine. I mean that I don't keep up the regime as with the tomatoes.

[AKmark]

Next year I am going to 7 gallon, one vine, this year I mostly used 10 gallon, two vines, and had some up to 20. In the 10 gallon I have 30+ feet of vine, it is big enough to grow Delicious and any other monster producers of very large fruit. 8 months later they are still loaded, it is about keeping them watered and fed.

[Kikaida]

As a side not, I have a Japanese Eggplant in a 10 gallon and its doing fine. A much hardier plant that doesn't seem to have such high demands.

[Labradors2]

One eggplant in a ten gallon pot? I'd probably have stuffed three in there! Not that I have any experience in container growing eggplants, but mine don't "look" that big.

Linda

[Salsacharley]

As far as wilting goes, you must keep in mind that the plants transpire, and in high heat they will shut down transpiration to conserve their moisture and this is reflected in their wilted appearance. This wilting also results in poor flowering, blossom drop and even blossom end rot in my experience. Consistent soil moisture is best IMHO. You're going to get blossom drop in high heat no matter how much you water. I'm using everything from 5 gal plastic grow bags to 30 gal smart pots and I don't see much difference in plant growth or health or production.

[SharonRossy]

It's true that excessive heat will cause blossom drop regardless of plants in containers or in ground in my experience. As for eggplants, I tried two in a 15 gallon and they did ok, but the next year I grew them separately in 15 gallon each. They also need a lot of water and my experience is that eggplants do better in containers than in the ground. For some reason, growing sweet peppers has not been successful for me, regardless of where I plant them. Can't figure what I'm doing wrong.

[taboule]

Originally Posted by SharonRossy

They also need a lot of water and my experience is that eggplants do better in containers than in the ground. .

This is something that I discovered here too, may be due to a second factor in addition to better watering (for me at least):the grey bags keep their feet warmer in the earlier cooler spring months. This year I used 3 x 10 gal bags for eggplants, a Black Beauty in one of them, then doubled up a smaller mediteranean (Greek) type (for stuffing) in the other 2. All 5 plants did better than similar ones in the ground.

Can't say the same about toms and peppers, they all had BER.

[Kikaida]

Believe it or not, only one of our plants was dropping blossoms, the reset held up real good. I think I've learned that the major issue is direct, piercing sunlight. I had 75% shade cloth up and although blinding light would filter through, that slashing laser beam affect of the sun was dramatically reduced. It was still hot but it was not whip-cracking-across-your-face hot under the shade cloth. You could walk on that concrete barefooted while just outside of it would burn your feet. The one that did all of the dropping was the only plant outside of the shade cloth. So perhaps drop also has something to do in large part to heat AND blasting sunlight? At least my experience points to that.