Diatomaceous Earth as a seed starting medium - Page 44

b54red · March 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesL

Bill,
Question - Why the choice of the Apples and Oranges Fert as opposed to the Veggie or Texas Tomato food?

Mainly because that was all I had left of the Urban Farms fertilizers when my seedlings came up and needed a little boost. I use a lot of Apples and Oranges fertilizer because I have lemons, limes and a satsuma tree and they absolutely love the stuff. I never had but a few fruit per tree until I started using the Apples and Oranges.

I used the vegetable last year and they did good but this year they are doing even better. Last year I had all three types of fertilizer in my arsenal and from what I could tell there wasn't a huge difference in the Vegetable and the A & O so I just started using the A & O on everything at least until the tomatoes get ready to bloom then it is all TTF. I would probably have just as good a result using just the Vegetable on my citrus and I will probably try that too. I have had nothing but good things happen when using the three Urban Farms fertilizers I have tried; but the most spectacular results were with my tomatoes and citrus.

Bill

JamesL · March 20, 2014

Thanks Bill. I was quite pleased with Veggie and TTF last year as well.

tnkrer · March 20, 2014

So at week 1 more than 80% of tomato seeds have germinated. (14/17)

The tall ones are hitting the ceiling of the dome and the condensed water is falling on all the seedlings. Is that a problem? Should I take away the dome now? Take away the dome in the daytime?
Pepper and eggplants (tray at bottom of the photo) are still coming out. So I would like to keep the dome to keep the temperature warmer in there.

RayR and others .. Thanks for introducing this wonderful seed germinating medium. That and seed heating mat have made this way too easy

RayR · March 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnkrer

So at week 1 more than 80% of tomato seeds have germinated. (14/17)

The tall ones are hitting the ceiling of the dome and the condensed water is falling on all the seedlings. Is that a problem? Should I take away the dome now? Take away the dome in the daytime?
Pepper and eggplants (tray at bottom of the photo) are still coming out. So I would like to keep the dome to keep the temperature warmer in there.

RayR and others .. Thanks for introducing this wonderful seed germinating medium. That and seed heating mat have made this way too easy

Absolutely take away the dome, you don't need it anymore once they are up.
What are you using for lights? They are stretching for light.

tnkrer · March 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

Absolutely take away the dome, you don't need it anymore once they are up.
What are you using for lights? They are stretching for light.

I don't have my light setup ready yet. (Will be ready on the weekend.) I plan to have two 4x1 T-8 fixtures with 4 lamps each that will support about 30 potted plants. I thought I will move them under lights when first set of true leaves appear. Apparently that is too late? Should I move them under lights right now?
Or will the window sill be a good enough light source for the time being? There will be 4-5 hours of sun on the window sill though. Will that be too harsh?

RayR · March 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnkrer

I don't have my light setup ready yet. (Will be ready on the weekend.) I plan to have two 4x1 T-8 fixtures with 4 lamps each that will support about 30 potted plants. I thought I will move them under lights when first set of true leaves appear. Apparently that is too late? Should I move them under lights right now?
Or will the window sill be a good enough light source for the time being? There will be 4-5 hours of sun on the window sill though. Will that be too harsh?

They need bright light as soon as they are out of the medium, otherwise their stems will stretch looking for light instead of bulking up. They should be alright, they will be leggy but you can plant the stems deep when you pot them up. The window sill is better than nothing, but the sun is not that intense this time of year in the north. When you get them under the T8's, make sure they are as close as possible to the lamps, within an inch is good, 2" max.

tnkrer · March 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

They need bright light as soon as they are out of the medium, otherwise their stems will stretch looking for light instead of bulking up. They should be alright, they will be leggy but you can plant the stems deep when you pot them up. The window sill is better than nothing, but the sun is not that intense this time of year in the north. When you get them under the T8's, make sure they are as close as possible to the lamps, within an inch is good, 2" max.

Another possible problem is - The light setup is in the garage where its mighty cold. When are these seedlings ready for those cold temps? (as low as 35)

I am going to hang 2-4 of twisty daylight bulbs on these trays until then. I will create a fixture using plywood that will take 2 or 4 of those twisty bulbs and then somehow hang that plywood on the cell tray. That should keep them happy for few more days!

Alpinejs · March 24, 2014

I have been searching the thread and have likely just missed it, but am wondering about the approximate no. of days before one can expect germination of
tomato seeds. Any veteranos remember this salient fact?"

Virtex · March 24, 2014

6 Days.

Here is a nice page for seed germination:

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page11.html

tnkrer · March 26, 2014

At 14 days true leaves are starting to come out for tomatoes

I got germination from 16 out of 17 tomato seeds. So that is good!

These are now under 4 6500K lamps (32 W, 4ft tubes) at night still inside the house (so temps never fall below 60). They have not become leggier since I started using light. This weekend I will pot them up individually in a 4" pot and move them to garage. (no sunlight for next month until hardening starts. They will get the same 6500K lamps (8 lamps over a 4'x2' area). Also started feeding with 1/4 tsp fertilizer per gallon of water (dyna gro foliage pro)

peppers and eggplants are still germinating, and those that have germinated, do not have true leaves.

Douglas_OW · March 27, 2014

Hi Ray,

I've been following this thread from the start and want to say thanks to you and to all of the other contributors. This thead is Looong, and perhaps daunting, but contains so much great info. I'd really like to see it made a Sticky. If possible, you might consider summarizing the highlights by editing the first post, maybe in FAQ format- which DE products have been tested, which clay based products are not suitable, how to water, fertilizer, etc. It might avoid some of the repeated questions, or at least simplify the standard answers: "Read the first post, and then ask again if you still have questions".
Thanks,

Jim

Alpinejs · March 27, 2014

Douglas...I can't agree more with this post of yours. (even though it dumps a
fair amount of work on Ray).

Douglas_OW · March 27, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpinejs

(even though it dumps a
fair amount of work on Ray).

Not my intent, but I couldn't edit Ray's post if I wanted to, and I am not the subject matter expert to do it, anyway.

Jim

RayR · March 27, 2014

Yep, this thread has gotten a bit long in a few years.

Even spawned some other DE threads. I'm going to spawn another one separate from this one dedicated to DE/Organic mixes. I started that here last season with my DE/Coir and DE/Coir/Worm Castings experiment with tomatoes. There's no end to experiments.

Yes, it is perhaps a daunting task to summarize all that has been learned so far from all the contributors here, but a FAQ of some general guidelines of do's and don'ts is a good idea and simple enough to do. Hopefully that will eliminate a lot of repeated questions and mistakes. Beyond that I don't know, getting gardeners to agree on anything like fertilization, seed starting containers, watering etc.... is like herding cats.

I've been pleasantly surprised at the discoveries and other uses for DE that have been made, some you might say are anecdotal without controlled side-by-side experiments, but the results have been interesting enough to warrant further investigation.

Some of the benefits of DE that have proposed here or even proven have been:

Better seed germination
Better seedling/root growth
Virtually no damping off
Virtually no pesky root damaging soil insects
DE's thermal insulation properties that protects roots from cold temperatures.

Probably forgetting some others.

BigVanVader · April 9, 2014

Wow what a great thread! Thanks to Alpine for pointing me here. I will definitely be doing some of my seed starts in DE next year. I will do a side by side like some of you and post the results, though I have no doubt they will be fantastic. I just checked my local A. Zone and they have 15lb bags for $5.99. Anyone know of a better source? I mean 6$ is fine just curious.

Also, have any of you found that certain plants do poorly in DE? I grow a lot of herbs/flowers from seed as well and want to make sure this is ok for them. Thanks again for the info!

March 20, 2014	#648
tnkrer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: MA 6a/b Posts: 352	What to do when the seedlings hit top of the dome So at week 1 more than 80% of tomato seeds have germinated. (14/17) The tall ones are hitting the ceiling of the dome and the condensed water is falling on all the seedlings. Is that a problem? Should I take away the dome now? Take away the dome in the daytime? Pepper and eggplants (tray at bottom of the photo) are still coming out. So I would like to keep the dome to keep the temperature warmer in there. RayR and others .. Thanks for introducing this wonderful seed germinating medium. That and seed heating mat have made this way too easy

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March 20, 2014	#647
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	Thanks Bill. I was quite pleased with Veggie and TTF last year as well.

March 24, 2014	#653
Alpinejs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Alpine, Calif. in winter. Sandpoint Lake, Ont. Canada summers Posts: 850	I have been searching the thread and have likely just missed it, but am wondering about the approximate no. of days before one can expect germination of tomato seeds. Any veteranos remember this salient fact?"

March 24, 2014	#654
Virtex Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: California Posts: 121	6 Days. Here is a nice page for seed germination: http://tomclothier.hort.net/page11.html

March 26, 2014	#655
tnkrer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: MA 6a/b Posts: 352	At 14 days true leaves are starting to come out for tomatoes I got germination from 16 out of 17 tomato seeds. So that is good! These are now under 4 6500K lamps (32 W, 4ft tubes) at night still inside the house (so temps never fall below 60). They have not become leggier since I started using light. This weekend I will pot them up individually in a 4" pot and move them to garage. (no sunlight for next month until hardening starts. They will get the same 6500K lamps (8 lamps over a 4'x2' area). Also started feeding with 1/4 tsp fertilizer per gallon of water (dyna gro foliage pro) peppers and eggplants are still germinating, and those that have germinated, do not have true leaves.

March 27, 2014	#656
Douglas_OW Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NJ z5 Posts: 281	Hi Ray, I've been following this thread from the start and want to say thanks to you and to all of the other contributors. This thead is Looong, and perhaps daunting, but contains so much great info. I'd really like to see it made a Sticky. If possible, you might consider summarizing the highlights by editing the first post, maybe in FAQ format- which DE products have been tested, which clay based products are not suitable, how to water, fertilizer, etc. It might avoid some of the repeated questions, or at least simplify the standard answers: "Read the first post, and then ask again if you still have questions". Thanks, Jim

March 27, 2014	#657
Alpinejs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Alpine, Calif. in winter. Sandpoint Lake, Ont. Canada summers Posts: 850	Douglas...I can't agree more with this post of yours. (even though it dumps a fair amount of work on Ray).

March 27, 2014	#659
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,464	Yep, this thread has gotten a bit long in a few years. Even spawned some other DE threads. I'm going to spawn another one separate from this one dedicated to DE/Organic mixes. I started that here last season with my DE/Coir and DE/Coir/Worm Castings experiment with tomatoes. There's no end to experiments. Yes, it is perhaps a daunting task to summarize all that has been learned so far from all the contributors here, but a FAQ of some general guidelines of do's and don'ts is a good idea and simple enough to do. Hopefully that will eliminate a lot of repeated questions and mistakes. Beyond that I don't know, getting gardeners to agree on anything like fertilization, seed starting containers, watering etc.... is like herding cats. I've been pleasantly surprised at the discoveries and other uses for DE that have been made, some you might say are anecdotal without controlled side-by-side experiments, but the results have been interesting enough to warrant further investigation. Some of the benefits of DE that have proposed here or even proven have been: Better seed germination Better seedling/root growth Virtually no damping off Virtually no pesky root damaging soil insects DE's thermal insulation properties that protects roots from cold temperatures. Probably forgetting some others.

April 9, 2014	#660
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	Wow what a great thread! Thanks to Alpine for pointing me here. I will definitely be doing some of my seed starts in DE next year. I will do a side by side like some of you and post the results, though I have no doubt they will be fantastic. I just checked my local A. Zone and they have 15lb bags for $5.99. Anyone know of a better source? I mean 6$ is fine just curious. Also, have any of you found that certain plants do poorly in DE? I grow a lot of herbs/flowers from seed as well and want to make sure this is ok for them. Thanks again for the info!