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Old December 3, 2016   #1
Ambiorix
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Default Unwanted hybridization of the varieties of tomatoes (1)

The varieties of blue tomatoes are responsible for hybridization realized by bumblebees and insect pollinators.

If I study the successive generations of seeds harvested on tomatoes resulting from flowers no protected from bumblebees, you will notice that the blue genes are transmitted by generations in generations.

IN 2010 , a plant of tomatoes in the shape of pepper was planted next to a plant of OSU blue and a plant of pineapple op. I obtained in 2011 with 3 seeds resulting from the same tomato a plant of osu blue, a plant of blue pineapple and a plant ofblue tomatoes in the shape of pepper


I studied the generations of tomatoes from several blue seeds of pineapple obtained in 2011 always in the presence of bumblebees and without protecting flowers.

In 2016, I can declare that bumblebees are very dangerous for all the not blue and blue varieties if flowers are not protected.

eb01 production 2011.jpg
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Old December 4, 2016   #2
joseph
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I am incredibly pleased whenever bees create naturally occurring hybrids in my garden. I welcome natural cross pollination, and go to great lengths to increase the frequency and effectiveness of bee pollination of tomatoes in my garden.
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Old December 4, 2016   #3
Ambiorix
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I too but when I study the following generations I notice that certain seeds give not desired blue varieties. These seeds should not be exchanged, given, sold and sowed because we pass on these blue genes in former varieties which are so polluted. I have many examples of these unfortunate cases. Because of this mismanagement of seeds, the blue genes are going to become invasive.
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Old December 4, 2016   #4
Ambiorix
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eb02 productions 2011.jpg

eb03 production 2012a.jpg

eb04 production 2012b.jpg

eb05 200MC.jpg

eb06 2096AB.jpg

eb07 2098AB.jpg

To be continued
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Old December 4, 2016   #5
joseph
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I believe that the genes of red tomatoes are also invasive. I believe that people just don't notice because it's harder to tell the difference between a red tomato and a red tomato than it is between a red and a blue.

I am thrilled whenever someone sends me seeds that are "not true to type", or that have been "polluted". In my garden that is the most welcome kind of tomato seed.

If someone values purity, then the invasiveness of the blue gene might be welcomed, because it would make it easier to identify impure varieties.
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Old December 4, 2016   #6
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There are now too many not serious people. All the seeds should be accompanied with the photos of the mother of seeds. Besides it is necessary to say absolutely if they are seeds risky or really corresponding to all the rigorous rules(rulers) of culture.
The breeders have at first to become aware of it and as well as the buyers and exchangers stipulate these conditions of honest cultures.
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Old December 4, 2016   #7
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Ambiorix I and I think ALMOST everyone else reading this are very glad that you posted this warning. The pollen on antho varieties can be very fine and powdery and abundant, and I DO NOT want promiscuous pollination of my true growing cultivars. I value being able to grow a seed and get exactly what I was hoping for.

Joseph, I welcome you to plant loads of blue varieties to get your promiscuous pollination, I just know your customers are going to buy lots of those blue tomatoes!

Seriously Ambiorix, thank you for warning us of this danger.
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Old December 4, 2016   #8
KarenO
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Interesting. I did not know that there is a difference in the pollen. I do think this is very important for commercial seed producers especially.
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Old December 4, 2016   #9
joseph
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I don't grow blue tomatoes in my garden, because I don't like the taste. But when I find one that tastes good to me, I'll invite it to share it's pollen with the rest of my tomatoes. It'd be easy enough to cull blueness if I ever wanted to.

I'm just growing tomatoes. I'm not trying to preserve varieties, or keep them pure. I care about productivity, and traits like promiscuous pollination that are expected to lead to higher productivity.

Last edited by joseph; December 4, 2016 at 12:48 PM.
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Old December 4, 2016   #10
Ambiorix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenO View Post
Interesting. I did not know that there is a difference in the pollen. I do think this is very important for commercial seed producers especially.
KarenO
The important it is not the sharpness of the pollen but the danger of some pollen for the other varieties
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Old December 25, 2016   #11
Ambiorix
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg eb01 production 2011.jpg (111.5 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg eb02 productions 2011.jpg (54.9 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg eb03 production 2012a.jpg (93.6 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg eb04 production 2012b.jpg (148.0 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg eb05 200MC.jpg (135.2 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg eb06 2096AB.jpg (157.8 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg eb07 2098AB.jpg (110.1 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg eb08 petites filles de 1001AB.jpg (100.0 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb09petites filles de 1002AB.jpg (117.7 KB, 87 views)

Last edited by Ambiorix; December 25, 2016 at 05:27 AM.
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Old December 25, 2016   #12
Ambiorix
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg eb10 petites filles de 1004AB 1.jpg (129.9 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg eb11 petites filles de 1004AB 2.jpg (156.9 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb12 petites filles de 1004AB 3.jpg (122.9 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb13 petites filles des autres.jpg (117.1 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb14 jaune et columelle rose.jpg (94.1 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb15 jaune et rouge.jpg (96.0 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg eb16 rouge.jpg (96.4 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg eb18 Protection et nom.jpg (44.8 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg eb23 filles de 3724AB.jpg (109.8 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg eb24 filles de 3000FW.jpg (136.8 KB, 87 views)
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Old December 25, 2016   #13
Ambiorix
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Attached Images
File Type: jpg eb26 filles de 3136AL.jpg (139.8 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg eb27 filles de 3068FQ.jpg (130.1 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg eb28 filles de 3991AB.jpg (112.1 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg eb29 filles de 2098AB(1).jpg (137.9 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg eb30 filles de 2098AB(2).jpg (131.7 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg eb31 filles de 2098AB(3).jpg (170.6 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg eb32 filles de 3146GP.jpg (170.6 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg eb33 filles de 3108GW(1).jpg (131.2 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg eb34 filles de 3108GW(2).jpg (151.0 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg eb35 filles spécifiques de 2098AB.jpg (111.1 KB, 83 views)
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Old December 25, 2016   #14
Ambiorix
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I discovered rather fast this possibility of transport of pollen by bumblebees towards other flowers of the other varieties of tomatoes.

I finalized then a management system of observations and photos of all the important moments during the growth.

The seeds of every collected tomato received a reference number according to the year (the last figure) according to the moment of the harvest (3 figures) and the person récolteuse of these seeds (2 capital letters).

Every sowed seed has a number of sowing with an indication in small letter to indicate the place in the order of the sowing.
I indicate the date of sowing, seeding, transplanting, plantation for every seed.
Every collected tomato also receives a reference number.

I can trace so for every seed a family tree according to the reference numbers year by year.
I began in 2009 and now in 2016, I have a large number of photos which I can compare.

If there was not of fortuitous crossings every year, there would be no big differences between the characteristics of tomatoes.

It is necessary to observe the various characteristics year by year which sometimes show us of big differences.

As I know the location of all the varieties in my kitchen garden and to my testers, I can try to discover the characteristic donor of genes observed.

Thus observe, please, all the differences.

TO BE CONTINUED
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Old December 25, 2016   #15
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Ambiorix, you have put in a tremendous amount of time and energy documenting your results with photos and family tree charts. I applaud your posts and thank you for sharing them with us. So far, I have not been blown away by the taste of any of the antho tomatoes I have tried, though some have been much better than others. I love the color combinations seen in some of the fruit, but after following your posts here and elsewhere, I think you have me convinced that antho's may not have a place in my garden, since I don't bag my seeds. Thank you for some thought provoking material.
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