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Old May 17, 2019   #31
BigVanVader
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Nope.
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Old May 21, 2019   #32
jtjmartin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
They are overcharging you badly in the USA.

I can get grafted tomato plants for £2 each in the UK.

Organic as well but there is £5 delivery charge on top and limited varieties,

Say if I bought 10 it would work out at about $30 so $3 each


That's a great price. Just normal tomato plants from Big Box Stores are usually over $3 here.

Jeff
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Old May 22, 2019   #33
PureHarvest
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There are grafters selling way less than the box stores if you search.
Here is one for the east coast folks. $2.50 per plant for orders under 48 plants. Price goes down the more you order:https://redivined.weebly.com/ordering.html
I used her 2 years ago.
That said, I found no yield difference for the cost and dropped the idea.
I am bag growing in a tunnel, so soil and foliar diseases are not a problem. I was seeing if I could increase yield
Perhaps the rootstock she used was not the best for my growing methods. Or I screwed something up with my fertilizer delivery, or they need to be fed differently.
The fruit came on slow and new growth at the top was slow compared to the same ones I raised from seed on own roots.
I was also trying to see if one grafted plant could be trained to two leaders, thus eliminating having to put two single stem plants in one bag like I usually do.
I might give it another trial next year now that I have my nutrient delivery system dialed in and have scaled back the number of plants i grow plus other farm projects in general.
She says on her site that in 2018 in her tunnels, the grafted plants doubled the yield over the own-root plants.

Last edited by PureHarvest; May 22, 2019 at 11:55 AM.
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Old May 22, 2019   #34
xellos99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHarvest View Post
There are grafters selling way less than the box stores if you search.
Here is one for the east coast folks. $2.50 per plant for orders under 48 plants. Price goes down the more you order:https://redivined.weebly.com/ordering.html
I used her 2 years ago. 2
That said, I found no yield difference for the cost and dropped the idea.
I am bag growing in a tunnel, so soil and foliar diseases are not a problem.
In fact, the fruit came on slow and new growth at the top was slow.
Perhaps the rootstock she used was not the best for my growing methods. Or I screwed something up with my fertilizer delivery.
I was also trying to see if one grafted plant could be trained to two leaders, thus eliminating having to put two single stem plants in one bag like I usually do.
I might give it another trial next year now that I have my nutrient delivery system dialed in and have scaled back the number of plants i grow plus other farm projects in general.
She says on her site that in 2018 in her tunnels, the grafted plants doubled the yield over the own-root plants.
It does seem that reports are a mixed bag from average home growers.
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Old May 22, 2019   #35
jtjmartin
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Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
It does seem that reports are a mixed bag from average home growers.
I would guess that IF disease pressure is low - any increases in production are small.

IF disease pressure is high - like my garden - increased production is HUGE!
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Old May 23, 2019   #36
b54red
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If you have nematodes and fusarium the difference is huge. If you have foliage diseases then very little if any difference.

Bill
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Old June 1, 2019   #37
jtjmartin
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RST-04-106 was in short supply at the beginning of the season so I ordered some 105 from Harris. The Harris website said that 105 offered resistance to BW:

"RST-04-105-T is a rootstock variety that offers a great disease package to of the soil borne issues you can encounter. Resistance to TMV, Corky Root, FW (1, 2), V, Root-knot Nematode and Bacterial wilt." Harris website.

3 of my 13 RST-04-105 grafts have been wiped out in classic BW style - big healthy plant, good fruit set, starts to wilt . . .dead.

In researching, I found that NE Seeds does not state BW resistant and one research paper said 105 does not resist BW. Live and learn.

OTOH, I get better at grafting each year so I planted plenty of RST-04-106 grafted plants.

Jeff
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Old June 2, 2019   #38
b54red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjmartin View Post
RST-04-106 was in short supply at the beginning of the season so I ordered some 105 from Harris. The Harris website said that 105 offered resistance to BW:

"RST-04-105-T is a rootstock variety that offers a great disease package to of the soil borne issues you can encounter. Resistance to TMV, Corky Root, FW (1, 2), V, Root-knot Nematode and Bacterial wilt." Harris website.

3 of my 13 RST-04-105 grafts have been wiped out in classic BW style - big healthy plant, good fruit set, starts to wilt . . .dead.

In researching, I found that NE Seeds does not state BW resistant and one research paper said 105 does not resist BW. Live and learn.

OTOH, I get better at grafting each year so I planted plenty of RST-04-106 grafted plants.

Jeff
Jeff the RST-04-106 root stock has been a life saver for me a few times. This year I doubt BW would have been much of a problem due to the drought I am in but in years with nice heavy rainfall it is a real problem and can wipe out a lot of big healthy loaded plants just before it is time to start harvesting them. Knock on wood but I haven't lost a single plant grafted to the RST-04-106 root stock to BW since I started using it several years ago but I have lost some others grafted to root stock that isn't BW resistant.

Bill
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Old June 5, 2019   #39
jtjmartin
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Thanks Bill. I preordered more than enough RST-04-106 for the next couple years. I removed two more 105 plants today that were totally wilted. No 106 plants have been affected.

Interestingly, my "206" grafts are also doing fine. (I rooted a couple 106 tops last year, planted them, saved seed and used that seed as rootstock this year.)

Jeff
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Old June 5, 2019   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtjmartin View Post
Interestingly, my "206" grafts are also doing fine. (I rooted a couple 106 tops last year, planted them, saved seed and used that seed as rootstock this year.)

Jeff
That's interesting. I was wondering about this. Unlike a lot of F1s like sungold, you aren't worried about some delicate flavor profile so hopefully the key disease resistances might be more likely to carry forward. For commercial growers it might not be worth the risk of anything less than a true 106, but for us home growers it would be nice to have something OP that still checked all the boxes.

Please keep us updated on how it does for you, particularly if it is keeping up with the others on vigor and fruit size as well.
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Old June 5, 2019   #41
jtjmartin
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Will do. I only have a few plants this year grafted with "206."

If I get good results, I will do more next year - I always have extra scion plants.

I have 3 RST-04-106 plants growing for seed again this year.
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Old June 6, 2019   #42
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I had my first grafting experiences last year.

#1 I ordered a packet of 10 Estamino seeds from someone on Amazon. They didn't germ. So I ordered two grafted plants from Jung's, a Cherokee Purple/Estamino and a Big Beef/Estamino. I grew them next to a CP and Big Beef I had started myself. The two grafted plants didn't do as well. Jung did a fine job of shipping, but the two grafted plants didn't get out of the gate as well as the two I had started and they never caught up. They grew fine, but nothing special and they certainly didn't best my "best as I could manage" control plants. (I don't have any soil issues, at least that I am aware of or have ever noticed).


#2 I do have short season issues, at least when it comes 85-90 day tomatoes. So I grafted some Brandywines to an early determinate rootstock to see if I could get a smaller, easier to handle plant (for starting under lights) with an earlier (and more reliable) fruit set. I used Polbig ( a small early determinate) for the rootstock.

My first grafts failed (I pushed them out of the nest too soon). My second attempt worked. But I was now darn near three weeks behind the season. Not good. Additionally, I lost my control Brandywine plant due to a dog mishap. So my experiment had some flaws. Nevertheless, the Polbig rootstock did seem to have a dwarfing effect. The plants were set out in mid-June and by late September they were 4' tall and ripening some fruit on the lower and mid trusses. I wasn't particularly impressed with the fruit, but then I am seldom impressed with large tomatoes that ripen late in the season. The shorter days and cooler nights just don't seem to allow the plants enough energy to get those big fruits properly flavored up.

This year I didn't bother grafting. The grafted CP and Big Beef performed no better (not as well actually) as their non-grafted controls. The Brandywine plants with the Polbig rootstock were (I believe) definitely smaller (but I did lose my control plant). But the plants didn't have a stocky, vigorous look to them. They were kind of small but spread out at the same time. (and were certainly not like those stocky, bushy, vigorous little Tasmanian Chocolates from the Dwarf Tomato project I'm growing this year.)

If I do try grafting again, I will start two weeks earlier than I think I should. It was fun, but I don't believe I have enough of reason, yet at least, to continue with it.

Last edited by PaulTandberg; June 6, 2019 at 12:47 PM.
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Old June 6, 2019   #43
jtjmartin
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Paul:

I read the hype about grafting increasing production - it does - but maybe only for those growers that have soil conditions like I do.

From your experiments - it does look like the grafted plants do offer some resistance to dog mishaps though
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Old June 7, 2019   #44
PaulTandberg
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I expect there is a "horses for courses" factor involved with grafting.

If you have a soil disease issue finding a rootstock with resistance to it offers a value.

Additionally, some rootstocks are noted for increased vegetative growth and for extending vigor late into a long season.

If a grower has an extended season whether by local climate or a controlled greenhouse environment, those rootstocks may offer a production benefit well worth exploring.

Me? I don't have soil disease issues (yet, anyway). And I have a short season. I prune to limit vegetative growth and come early September I am lopping off stems to stop it entirely. I don't measure production by pounds or bushels. For me good production is successfully cheating the season so that I can start getting nice tomatoes in early July and continue eating them till September's end.

Different rootstocks can offer, in turn, different benefits. If a particular rootstock offers a benefit a particular gardener needs or values, then grafting is something to consider/implement. If there were a rootstock that turned a 75 day tomato into a 55 day tomato, I would be grafting noon and night. If it turned a 75 day tomato into a 73 day tomato, I wouldn't bother.

Horses for Courses.

Last edited by PaulTandberg; June 7, 2019 at 12:05 PM.
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Old June 7, 2019   #45
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Great analogy.

I need some good "mudders" this year in my garden with all the rain!
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