Seed quality from green tomatoes

[Adenn1]

I need to visit a few of the gardens of those friends/neighbors that I gave transplants to this spring. I sent out several varities that I did not have room for. I hope to find ripe tomatoes...but if I dont...can I pick a few green ones and allow them to ripen on the window sill? Will the quality of the seeds taken from these tomatoes be diminished in any way--I guess as compared to a vine rippened tomato?

Just curious--and so that I don't have to make several trips.

Thanks

Mark

[retiree]

Hi-Last year I had a Mary Ann plant that was planted much too late. I picked a green tomato(the only tomato) and brought it in and left it until it had a bit of colour. I saved seed from this shrivelled up tomato. I planted one of the tiny seeds and it is a beautiful plant this year,loaded with large tomatoes.
Hope this is encouraging.
Neil G.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Adenn1

I need to visit a few of the gardens of those friends/neighbors that I gave transplants to this spring. I sent out several varities that I did not have room for. I hope to find ripe tomatoes...but if I dont...can I pick a few green ones and allow them to ripen on the window sill? Will the quality of the seeds taken from these tomatoes be diminished in any way--I guess as compared to a vine rippened tomato?

Just curious--and so that I don't have to make several trips.

Depends -- if the fruit is "mature green", evidenced by a whitish starburst at blossom end and a slight lightening of the fruit to a paler green, you're probably good to go. Sometimes the starburst is hard to make out, though, depending on lighting. I can usually see it best in direct sunlight, not so much with indoor lighting.

Test: if you can cut through the fruit with a knife without cutting the seeds, you've likely got a mature green fruit. But then, the test itself is destructive to the fruit. Sometimes used/cited as a way to test one of many fruits at a similar stage of ripeness in a bulk picking/commercial setting in order to know if the batch (frequently determinates) is mature green.

And sometimes, what appears to be a green immature one can work, but don't count on it as a sure thing.

Any breaker stage (evidenced by various degrees of blushing) should be fine.

Of course, certain green when ripe varieties are bit different in terms of blushing/coloration in figuring out the above!

Carolyn sometimes mentions someone she knows using green fruits, but I'm unclear on whether this person is using immature green or the mature green stage. For some reason, I'm thinking Tom Wagner occasionally uses green fruits; could be wrong or misremembering.

In any case, I prefer to let the fruit fully ripen before processing it even if it wasn't fully ripe when actually picked. It's much easier to extract the seeds.

Btw, it's better to set fruits in a room temp shaded area rather than a window sill (old myth). Once picked, no further photosynthesis occurs. What the sun coming through the window accomplishes is a sort of artificial ripening, in addition to whatever 'natural' ripening would occur. It can also accelerate possible rotting, especially if there are any bad spots or cracks on the fruit.

I'm not sure how much sun on a picked fruit would accomplish as to ripening for seed saving purposes, but I do know it's not really helpful in terms of taste.

If you've ever inadvertently left a green "cull" fruit laying out in the garden or one knocked off when green, found it later (apparently ripe), then tasted it out of curiousity, you'll know what I mean. Usually not very good tasting at all, might have that supermarket taste.

[Adenn1]

Thanks Neil and thanks Suze...I do hope to find some ripe or close to ripe fruit on my trips to these gardens...but I had never considered picking a mature green fruit...that's why I asked the question.

I hope to get out to one garden tomorrow...I know this fellow kept the name tags I had with the plants. I found out tonight one gent tossed his...so I may have a hard time identifying plants.

[carolyn137]

Carolyn sometimes mentions someone she knows using green fruits, but I'm unclear on whether this person is using immature green or the mature green stage. For some reason, I'm thinking Tom Wagner occasionally uses green fruits; could be wrong or misremembering.

*****

You're remembering correctly Suze and it is Tom Wagner who sometimes does that. He uses TSP to process seeds and doesn't ferment. And I have no idea of the stage of green that he uses.

Although some may disagree, I will not recommend using TSP in a home situation.

I've tried saving seeds from mature greenies and for me it didn't work out well at all. So in the past, when pushed by a killing frost I've picked the greenies and let them ripen up inside and then proceeded with my normal fermentation and those seeds are fine.

All you have to think about is that ALL seed for the variety Magnus ( featured on the cover of the 1900 Livingston catalog) came from me after allowing some green ones to ripen up. Long story which I think I've told here before, but my mother, bless her, cut up and used in a salad the two ripe ones that I'd brought in, leaving me with the green ones to deal with.

This was a situation where the USDA seeds had such low germination that Craig got nothing and I got ONE seed to germinate and it did so late and that's why I was so late in putting out that plant and coveted it like a baby.

[tomakers]

Just out of curiousity what is TSP?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tomakers

Just out of curiousity what is TSP?

*****

I'm sorry, I should have defined it.

TSP is trisodium phosphate.

[Mischka]

TSP = Trisodium Phosphate. Banned for sale in Massachusetts as it increases phosphate algae growth in our rivers and lakes.

Savogran is a big seller of this product and it could once be readily found in most hardware stores. It is a great cleaner for walls to prep for painting or wallpapering.

http://www.savogran.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_phosphate

If you take the time to locate a chemical supply house, you can still buy it...here's where I bought mine. (they have no website)

http://www.worcesterexecutives.com/m...chemimcal.html

[amideutch]

Here's the link to Tom Wagners seed saving technique using TSP. Ami
http://www.internettomatoes.net/WWA3.html

[Suze]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Here's the link to Tom Wagners seed saving technique using TSP. Ami
http://www.internettomatoes.net/WWA3.html

Thanks for posting that, most informative.

I mostly use Oxiclean** to process seeds. Germination is very good from oxy processed seeds; I've been doing it this way for a few years now. About one tablespoon for every 8 oz. of pulp/seed/water -- I eyeball it. Stir in until dissolved and let set for 30-35 min. Pour through a fine mesh strainer, rub around to push pulp though and rinse a bit. Then dump back into a cup and "float" them clean with water a few times as with fermentation.

**mostly sodium percarbonate

Will sometimes ferment, depending on my schedule. If I've got a bunch of varieties piling up and only have the time that day to squeeze them into cups before they rot (or to just get them out of the way), then I might set them aside. Sometimes they've fermented before I have a chance to oxi them. On the other hand, if I've got a few minutes, I can get though many varieties and have them drying on paper plates the same day. Also handy for just processing a small amount of seeds, when there's not much tomato juice.

[JerryL]

Suze,

Thanks for the Oxyclean process. I’ve always fermented in the past but sometimes I can’t get back to cleaning the seed when I should. And I won’t even mention how the garage smells. I think I’ll try your method on a few varieties this year.

[feldon30]

When you have to save seeds from a bunch of tomatoes and then go out of town for a week, Oxyclean is a real sanity saver. 30-45 minutes per batch and you're done.

[Thomas]

Thanks for the info Suze. The BTD seeds you sent me all germinated fine, I wonder if you used the Oxyclean method on them?

I had several varietes fermenting inside...well the wife did not like the smell coming from the slits in the lid...so she put them outside and a varmint got them I think I better go with this method

[tomatoaddict]

I have a quick newbie question. This is my first year saving seed. So, if I use the Oxyfresh method, is the longevity of the seed the same as if I had fermented them?

[Suze]

Originally Posted by tomatoaddict

I have a quick newbie question. This is my first year saving seed. So, if I use the Oxyfresh method, is the longevity of the seed the same as if I had fermented them?

I'm still getting good to great germination (70-100%) from seeds I saved in 2003 that were processed using Oxiclean.