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New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

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Old April 22, 2006   #46
michael johnson
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Can somebody please explain to me something- as I am not quite used to certain american terminology on certain things:-

What's :- Blue stuff & Crud ???
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Old April 22, 2006   #47
carolyn137
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Michael,

I just talked about blue stuff in my post before yours and defined it there as follows:

(So I soak the old seeds in water, stirring and poking them until they sink, and then I add a pinch of blue stuff such as Miracle Grow or Peters, or whatever, and just soak the seeds over night. One can also add a few drops of seaweed or fish prep instead of the blue stuff.)

I know that Miracle Grow and Peters and Schultz products are available in England. They are called blue stuff b'c they are blue, , and are non-organic fertilizers that are used by many folks.

As for CRUD, you saw someone ask about that at GW this AM and I'm pretty sure you saw my answer since I haven't seen anyone here at Tville ask about it recently but please direct me to where that is if I missed it.

I coined the term CRUD many years ago and it refers to the following.

I was seeing tomato foliage on some varieties that developed leaves with brown crispy edges and whatever it was was infectious b'c it spread to nearby seedlings, but I didn't recognize it as any foliage disease that I knew.

So I contacted Dr. Thomas Zitter, a tomato infectious disease specialist at Cornell and asked him about it. He knew exactly what I was talking about and said they thought it was an aberrant form of Early Blight ( A. solani), but they had not been able to prove that with lab tests.

So the best thing to do is to take off the effected leaves/stems of those seedlings and isolate infected plants from others.

Once those plants are set outside the symptoms disappear and the plants are perfectly fine.

I found, as do most others, that the varieties that can be affected are those that have heart shaped fruits and wispy droopy foliage, but certainly others can also be affected.

Kellogg's Breakfast seems to be particularly susceptible.

And other varieties with wispy droopy foliage, such as many of the paste types, also seem to often affected.

Does it happen to the same variety every season? No. What factors are involved? I don't know and no one else does.

So that's CRUD and the letters don't stand for anything, or at least anything that I thought out before I casually called it CRUD, as in I thought the plants looked cruddy.
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Old April 22, 2006   #48
geol
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I started two flats of seeds with an overall germination rate of 83%. The most vigorous were purchased from TGS. All 6 varieties 100% germination, quick and very healthy.
Worst was everything I ordered from Heirloom Tomatoes. Germination was spotty (21%) for four varieties, with many stuck seed coats, some of which never survived my clumsy rescue attempts. Their Riesentraube was 0% for me. I suspect that Heirloom sent old seed,so I tried the ol "wake up" treatment on another batch of Riesentraube. Soaked overnight in the blue stuff (Miracle-Gro)
Of the 50 seeds given the soak,[Instead of the 30 seed count advertized, Heirloom did send over 100/pkg. (do you think they knew?)], I now have 4 seedlings!!!
Thank you Carolyn, in the past, I would have given them up as a loss - very happy now!!!

On a separate note, in a class by themselves for vigor, are the six amazing Maxifort seeds sent to me by MsCowpea, which were planted ten days later. Up in two days, they quickly overtook the other seedlings. After successful grafting to Cherokee Purple, Ramapo, Sudduth BW, and a B. Supersteak,(lost a Grandfather Ashlock, and a Delicious),the cut tops were re-rooted. In less than three weeks, they once again overtook the pack at over 7". Thanks MsCowpea.

Again, many thanks to all, Your contibutions sharing knowlage, experiences and ideas are much apreciated.
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Old April 22, 2006   #49
carolyn137
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geo,

I hate to say what I'm about to say b'c Chuck was a good friend, but he passed away in 2002 and for a couple of years before that he was too ill to produce his own seed.

So figure out how old some of the seed being sold might be.

And for most of the varieties he listed there is no alternative source for Donna to get fresh seeds and she's never grown a tomato herself, so that isn't an option.

It was inevitable to me that this would happen and Donna knows it as well, b'c I told her so.
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Old April 22, 2006   #50
geol
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Thanks Carolyn ~ I’m trying many new (to me) varieties this year, and Riesentraube and Earl’s Faux were my only no-shows. I was very happy to have successfully coaxed four of the Riesentraube to finally germinate, and will try to save fresh seeds for myself and those whom I made trades with.
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Old April 22, 2006   #51
jerseyjohn61
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Geol, Grafting?! Darn you had me fooled! Some weeks
back when we were trading, you had me convinced
in believing that you were a casual tomato growing
Granddad, with a tiny garden, who recently got bitten
by the OP/heirloom bug! There is much to be said for
understated elegance....JJ61

P.S. GrandPops Ashlock took a long time to sprout
for me, but now have two comming along well.
Thanks for the seeds....JJ61
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Old April 23, 2006   #52
michael johnson
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Thanks Carolyn, I did read the article on Crud on GW- But it was about an hour or so after I had posted about it on here, If I had gone there first I would have read it and not needed to have posted on here about it- if you see what I mean.

Blue stuff- yes we do have lots of various brands of it in the UK- ( all blue ), but I hadn't quite tied it in with what you were talking about at the time, I can see now exactly what you mean.

I very rarely use it these days as there are lots of better liquid feeds on the market that does a far better job- one in particular supplied by Wilkinsons stores, that leaves the plants very healthy with a pronounced sheen on the leaves, due manily to the trace elements they contain and it is mainly organic for the rest of the formulae.


My most vigorous seedling this year is Vorlon,which are head and shoulders above the rest.

Last year- believe it or not, was a single seedling of Parks whopper, this one shot up at treble the rate of all the rest , including more of the same type, it was an absolute giant of a plant, well balanced in every way , it was the first seedling to germinate, reached eight foot high when all the others were only four foot high, and was loaded with tomatoes from the first truss upwards, I actualy had a bit of a job to stop it eventualy- I chopped off the top at eight foot tall, within days it sent out a parasol of side shoots like an umbrella from the very top- and I had to wrestle with it manualy with some sharp secateurs for several days before I calmed it down a bit, the stem was as thick as a brush shaft- I realy thought I was going to have to fell it like a tree at the end of the season- , I did save some seed from the tomatoes for future use to experiment with, as I though I might cross it with a slower less vigorous type to give a boot up the A--e to the root sytem of that variety :wink:
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Old April 24, 2006   #53
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Thank you, Carolyn for your feedback:
Quote:
Soaking longer than o'n isn't necessary.

And no, I don't see ARGG as being different from any other variety when they first germinate.
The reason I asked about Aunt Ruby's is that the seed I was germinating was from Totally Tomatoes prior to its recent change in ownership (and what appears to be a commitment to correctly identifying varieties).

My TT envelope label says "Aunt Ruby's German", and my notes indicate that I've never planted it before. Upon first emergence, the seedlings are extremely diminutive. Teeny tiny cotyledons. I guess we'll see what grows out!

-blt
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Old April 24, 2006   #54
WildLife
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ARGG was my worst germinator 1 out of 15
sprouted, it was touch and go for a long
time, finally it lives!
Wild ''must be da seed stock'' Life
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Old April 25, 2006   #55
michael johnson
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The more I read here -the more I am disturbed by the fact that so many on line reg seed suppliers are sending out old seed, this should never ever-be the case and should be totaly outlawed , as it totaly robs the buyer of a high chance of success rate.

If one has got to sow 20 or more seeds in order to get two seedlings to germinate or less, then it is a totaly unfare transaction- whatever way you look at it.

Its bad enough when individuals send out exchange seed that is donkeys years old without telling the person they are sending them to that there is a risk of non germination.

But when reg on line companies do it- then its very bad practice, that should totaly stop altogether, nothing short of seeds from the previous seasons crop totaly fresh and 100% viable should be offered for sale.

I am fully aware that tomato seeds will still germinate for up to nine years - but even so they are still not as good as fresh previous seasons crops seeds, and it is much fairer for the buyers to save fresh seed from these purchases and still have enough for sowing top quality seed for another two or three seasons and then ditch them for more fresh seed bought in or saved from own stock.

But when reg seed merchants sell seed that is already 2 to 5 years old or more then it reduces your chances a hundredfold- and it is just not on at all.
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Old April 25, 2006   #56
carolyn137
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Michael,

If you're referring to BLT's reference to Totally Tomatoes please note that it was said that the seeds were sold by TT before the change in ownership and since that occurred about 4-5 years ago one can't fault those seeds as being sold at that time as old.

I think most folks know which companies do sell seeds that have good germination.

Seed age is one factor, but HOW a compnay stores the seed is often a larger factor.

There are Federal germination standards but few of the smaller companies even know about them, let alone adhere to them/

And few are the companies that do germination studies on the seed they sell, such as TGS and Johnny's and Sandhill do, for example.

Most of the time many but not all companies buy their seed and have no idea when the seed was produced and rely on, or should rely on their own germionation tests, but many don't.
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Old April 25, 2006   #57
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I agree with Carolyn's points wholeheartedly. The reason I used KNitrate (saltpetre) soaking for my seeds was because I started them knowing they were old. I'd had them for a while. The old ownership at TT had so many mis-identified varieties at that time that I'd been wary to spend any effort during my (then) short Alaska season on seeds that might not be what they said they'd be.

On the other hand, this season I'm in California, where I will have a long season and be able to grow out more. I decided that I might as well try and grow out these older seeds (or I should just pitch them, since they're only going to lose viability if they sit in my seedbox unplanted).

When I saw Craig was working on having folks grow out older seed of his, it got me interested in growing out some of my older seed. So, thank you Craig for the inspiration.

I actually got relatively good germination from these "Aunt Ruby" (hopefully AR German Green) seeds, but those darned seedlings are still very dainty. Finally one had its first true leaves, so it got transplated yesterday. Today is overcast and threatening to rain. I hope my plants don't get drenched!

-blt
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Old April 27, 2006   #58
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All my varieties germinated. My most vigorous, both indoors and out, have been NAR, Sainte Lucie, Rasp Large Red, Besser, Turkey Chomp, Aunt Gertie's Gold and Chapman. My weakest, again both indoors and out, have been ARGG, Red Penna, Germaid Red and Stump of the World. Even the weakest ones look like they'll do okay though if we don't have hail or severe weather.
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Old April 28, 2006   #59
michael johnson
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going off the subject of tomatoes slightly- I came accross the biggest fatest longest yellow sweet pepper I have ever seen a few weeks ago, it was about a foot long and about six or seven inches breadth, so I thought I want to save some seeds from this beauty- so I opened it up there was about 50-60 seeds inside, so I scraped them out and put about five of them straight into a pot of compost- straight from the pepper, the rest I washed and dried as normal - ready for storage.

Lo-and behold, four days later- up came all the fresh pepper seed in full germination- the plants are now about three inches high and look good.


Occasionaly I have had tomato seeds germinate inside the over ripe tomato still hanging on the vine, and when I planted one or two of these as an experiment they burst into life within a few days.

The very worst tomatoes to leave on the vine though are definatly Stump-of -the World, they seem to be perfectly ok one day, and then all of a sudden they dissolve into a pink bag of soggy gunge just before they drop off, and they drop with a splat- that send showers of gunge and seeds everywhere- ( what a mess ! ) it took me hours of cleaning up one day last fall. " Yuk ".
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Old May 1, 2006   #60
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for some strange reason one of my Black Prince
maters, rotted @ the bottom (first time for that)
and just fell over ~
I made a cut on the end, placed in a bottle of water
just to see whats what ...
In just 3+ days , 20+ roots have appeared
along the stem !
Now I have to grow this one out, as its beaten
the "odds" ~ lol ~ actually, thats IF its makes
it through the next transition to dirt ...

Tom
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