A newbie container gardener could use some general tomato advice

squirrel789 · June 17, 2015

Hello,

Sorry to post the same question in a different thread, but I wonder if the non-container folks with lots of knowledge/experience ever look at the container section too. I could use some advice concerning over-watering vs using too little fertilizer that helps promote blossom/fruit setting. I'm having a blossom/fruit setting issue and am hoping that using Texas Tomato Food will help, despite the growing mix already being plenty moist from lots of recent rain and the constantly high summer humidity where I live in Missouri.

I was hoping that anyone with general knowledge of how tomatoes grow could help me out. I know container growing is different in many respects, but the basics of how the plants respond to nutrients and moisture is roughly the same, right? From what I have searched and read, many people here only check out the general discussion section, and perhaps do not look at issues or questions in the more specific sub-forums.

If anyone is willing to check it out and offer advice/criticism it is very much appreciated. My main question is in post #6, but any and all comments on the topic are appreciated. The thread is here:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=37057

I'm very sorry if it is taboo to plug a thread from a sub-section in the "general discussion" area, since it basically poses the same question in 2 sections at once

Please let me know and I will gladly delete this post and refrain from doing so in the future if this is not forum friendly (this is the first forum I've ever joined, so I'm admittedly new to the particulars of forum etiquette). I truly appreciate all I have learned here on TV (saying I've learned a lot is a massive understatement!) and I certainly don't want to break any forum rules or be annoying.

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer!

digsdirt · June 17, 2015

Looks like you have gotten several good replies on that thread. Hope they answered your questions.

Dave

squirrel789 · June 18, 2015

Absolutely Dave! I'm not sure I'll ever really run out of questions though. I think if there was nothing new left to learn it that would take some of the interest and intrigue out of learning a new gardening style. Plant spacing aside, which I knew would be a bit of an experiment from the start, I have learned I need to make my containers more versatile.

Ultimately, the weather so far this year hasn't matched well with the growing mix I put together. While probably viable for my area's typical weather, I naively planned only for a hot, relatively dry summer punctuated with occasional storms (like most years) and used elements in my mix that were all moisture retentive, anticipating only the usually hot and dry weather. I have a long list of things to change next year to help make my containers more versatile depending on whatever kind of weather comes my way. More than anything, I plan to make the mix drain better, so I the have more control over the moisture in the container, even if it means some extra watering.

Hopefully the strangely formed, low fruit set, and under-developed/failed blossom pics I just posted in the thread above will generate some more insight too.

Although, if the plants can make it through the current "rainy season" situation, I'm pretty sure that we will soon have some of the typically drier conditions that I built my container mix around. Drought is usually the big problem with growing tomatoes here. Oddly enough, I'm actually hoping for very little rain later in the summer

Thanks to all who post or have posted!

Gardeneer · June 18, 2015

I am not into going into links. But I think if you have discussed your issues in container growing forums, probably have gotten good answers. At any event here is my 2 cents worth.

1- In container growing you start with the potting soil. Number one: If you want to get good results, it has to be SOIL LESS. Any compost, garden soil, manure and combinations thereof are not quite suitable for container growing.
2- STRUCTURE: the mixture has to have a structure such tjat it has the right level of (a) moisture retention and (b) drainage. The problem often is "NOT ENOUGH DRAINAGE". Bagged commercial potting mixes such as MG Moisture Control is a good example. The best one off of top of my head are : Promix and Fafard (?). But you can also make your own called 5-1-1, formulated by Al ( user name TAPLA in GW). That is my choice of potting mix. It takes some efforts and experience to mix it but at the end you get something that works better and costs less too.

3- CONTAINER SIZE: Once you pass the steps 1 2 , comes container size. It plays a major role (IMO) in container growing. Most common problem in container growing is keeping a steady amount of moisture. If you don't, then what you might get often is BER among other problems. Therefore, the bigger the container size/soil volume the less problems and more peace of mind. If you are an organic purist, perhaps it would be a different/additional challenge, as organic fertilizing won't work with "Soil Less" medium. You have to use synthetic ones.
It has been suggester a minimum size/volume of 10-12 gallons for most tomato varies is fine. But some do it in 5 glln bucket (hard work) and some use containers as big as 25 glln. Sure , it costs more (container + potting mix costs) but then you get better results with less efforts and peace of mind. I, myself am growing several dwarfs/patio varieties in 5 gallon pots. But my climate is not very harsh temperatures wise and I am willing to do more attendance.

Container growing is more challenging and unfortunately most newbies start with this method, thinking that it is easy and end up getting setbacks.
JMO.

Gardeneer

drew51 · June 18, 2015

Compost is a must for container gardening with vegetables and fruits. It is amazing what it can do.
Not a lot but 1 part is a great idea. If you have not tried it, you should. My first tomato June 10th in zone 5. Says it all. I love using organic fertilizer too. Time is money, mixing at every watering is harder than just feeding the soil and letting the soil feed the plant. It eats when needed, not when you decide.
What's strange too is this year I used some soil for a 2nd year, and darn if all the tomatoes in last year's soil are outperforming this year's mix. I'm going to start making mixes and getting them in the pots as early as possible and adding plants later. Seems the organics need some time.
Some say bacteria is low in pots, that is a total myth. Bacteria has to be present to break even synthetics down, like urea which needs the enzyme urase to become available to plants. Bacteria do it. I worked with bacteria my whole professional career, they are teeming in containers, and even if you kill all of them in 24 hours after watering they are back.

Other methods work well too. Everybody has to find what works for them. All gardening is local.
Gardeneer describes a method that works very well too. I used to follow that method, but found it was not meeting all my needs. Many other methods also work very well. I have a major problem with soil drying quickly, my own mixes address that now. I found what works for me. Your experience may be different.

RayR · June 18, 2015

tI agree with Drew, compost is a big must have, especially for organic growers. You need to add the full spectrum of critters to a container to do the nutrient cycling. Bacteria and fungi are a must, but the system needs the predators too, the protozoa, the nematodes, and microarthropods release all the plant available nutrients.

June 17, 2015	#1
squirrel789 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: SW Missouri Zone 6b Posts: 121	A newbie container gardener could use some general tomato advice Hello, Sorry to post the same question in a different thread, but I wonder if the non-container folks with lots of knowledge/experience ever look at the container section too. I could use some advice concerning over-watering vs using too little fertilizer that helps promote blossom/fruit setting. I'm having a blossom/fruit setting issue and am hoping that using Texas Tomato Food will help, despite the growing mix already being plenty moist from lots of recent rain and the constantly high summer humidity where I live in Missouri. I was hoping that anyone with general knowledge of how tomatoes grow could help me out. I know container growing is different in many respects, but the basics of how the plants respond to nutrients and moisture is roughly the same, right? From what I have searched and read, many people here only check out the general discussion section, and perhaps do not look at issues or questions in the more specific sub-forums. If anyone is willing to check it out and offer advice/criticism it is very much appreciated. My main question is in post #6, but any and all comments on the topic are appreciated. The thread is here: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=37057 I'm very sorry if it is taboo to plug a thread from a sub-section in the "general discussion" area, since it basically poses the same question in 2 sections at once Please let me know and I will gladly delete this post and refrain from doing so in the future if this is not forum friendly (this is the first forum I've ever joined, so I'm admittedly new to the particulars of forum etiquette). I truly appreciate all I have learned here on TV (saying I've learned a lot is a massive understatement!) and I certainly don't want to break any forum rules or be annoying. Thanks for any advice anyone can offer!

June 17, 2015	#2
digsdirt Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: No.Central Arkansas - 6b/7a Posts: 179	Looks like you have gotten several good replies on that thread. Hope they answered your questions. Dave __________________ Dave

June 18, 2015	#5
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	Compost is a must for container gardening with vegetables and fruits. It is amazing what it can do. Not a lot but 1 part is a great idea. If you have not tried it, you should. My first tomato June 10th in zone 5. Says it all. I love using organic fertilizer too. Time is money, mixing at every watering is harder than just feeding the soil and letting the soil feed the plant. It eats when needed, not when you decide. What's strange too is this year I used some soil for a 2nd year, and darn if all the tomatoes in last year's soil are outperforming this year's mix. I'm going to start making mixes and getting them in the pots as early as possible and adding plants later. Seems the organics need some time. Some say bacteria is low in pots, that is a total myth. Bacteria has to be present to break even synthetics down, like urea which needs the enzyme urase to become available to plants. Bacteria do it. I worked with bacteria my whole professional career, they are teeming in containers, and even if you kill all of them in 24 hours after watering they are back. Other methods work well too. Everybody has to find what works for them. All gardening is local. Gardeneer describes a method that works very well too. I used to follow that method, but found it was not meeting all my needs. Many other methods also work very well. I have a major problem with soil drying quickly, my own mixes address that now. I found what works for me. Your experience may be different. Last edited by drew51; June 18, 2015 at 09:49 AM.

June 18, 2015	#4
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,915	I am not into going into links. But I think if you have discussed your issues in container growing forums, probably have gotten good answers. At any event here is my 2 cents worth. 1- In container growing you start with the potting soil. Number one: If you want to get good results, it has to be SOIL LESS. Any compost, garden soil, manure and combinations thereof are not quite suitable for container growing. 2- STRUCTURE: the mixture has to have a structure such tjat it has the right level of (a) moisture retention and (b) drainage. The problem often is "NOT ENOUGH DRAINAGE". Bagged commercial potting mixes such as MG Moisture Control is a good example. The best one off of top of my head are : Promix and Fafard (?). But you can also make your own called 5-1-1, formulated by Al ( user name TAPLA in GW). That is my choice of potting mix. It takes some efforts and experience to mix it but at the end you get something that works better and costs less too. 3- CONTAINER SIZE: Once you pass the steps 1 2 , comes container size. It plays a major role (IMO) in container growing. Most common problem in container growing is keeping a steady amount of moisture. If you don't, then what you might get often is BER among other problems. Therefore, the bigger the container size/soil volume the less problems and more peace of mind. If you are an organic purist, perhaps it would be a different/additional challenge, as organic fertilizing won't work with "Soil Less" medium. You have to use synthetic ones. It has been suggester a minimum size/volume of 10-12 gallons for most tomato varies is fine. But some do it in 5 glln bucket (hard work) and some use containers as big as 25 glln. Sure , it costs more (container + potting mix costs) but then you get better results with less efforts and peace of mind. I, myself am growing several dwarfs/patio varieties in 5 gallon pots. But my climate is not very harsh temperatures wise and I am willing to do more attendance. Container growing is more challenging and unfortunately most newbies start with this method, thinking that it is easy and end up getting setbacks. JMO. Gardeneer

June 18, 2015	#6
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	tI agree with Drew, compost is a big must have, especially for organic growers. You need to add the full spectrum of critters to a container to do the nutrient cycling. Bacteria and fungi are a must, but the system needs the predators too, the protozoa, the nematodes, and microarthropods release all the plant available nutrients.