Question about garlic scapes

[Durgan]

[QUOTE=joseph;355499]The advantage of leaving scapes on is that it is less labor, and the difference in size is imperceptible to me.

The disadvantage of leaving scapes on the plant is that they form bulbils, and bulbils can become weedy next growing season.

I leave scapes on because I am interested in growing pollinated garlic seeds, and that requires flower stalks.



Maybe thou should read this.
http://www.gourmetgarlicgardens.com/overview.htm

[joseph]

Great summary. This is the type of garlic seeds that I am after: The offspring of a grain of pollen landing on the ovary of a flower. The plants I am working with mostly came out of the former Soviet Union, and would probably fall into the purple stripe or marbled purple stripe groups if they were classified.

[meganp]

Originally Posted by rxkeith

cut them before they start to straighten. once they start they get woody. music will from a scape about 18 inches long, and uncut will form many little bulbils about the size of a grain of wheat. getting full size bulbs from those little suckers is a three year process. i've done it just to try it. you have to be real patient.
i have noticed that my bulbs tend to be smaller if the scapes are left on.



keith

this season is my fourth year growing garlic and I've always left the scapes on my hardnecks as I read that the bulbs store for longer if they're not cut off. I also use them as an indication of when to harvest - ie once they unfurl. I have also been growing on the bulbils to increase my stock and found it well worth the time and effort. I figure that if I just keep growing on the rounds and largest cloves from the resulting bulbs, it leaves more to eat Have just reached the point where I'm growing enough bulbs to start cutting some scapes to eat so will be able to judge for myself whether the bulb size and storage is affected by cutting them.
Am growing about 4 varieties of hardnecks which I'm still trying to identify - definitely one rocambole; a porcelain, an Asiatic and maybe a purple stripe, based on bulbil size, number of cloves and bulb & clove wrapper colours.
Have been reading about the work on getting true seed from garlic and will experiment this year (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere 45s 168e so planted this season's garlic at the end of April). They've had two lots of snow cover already and a few shoots have started to peek through their mulch of pea straw.

[TZ-OH6]

I use scapes as a substitute for green beans. It's hard to leave any on when they get eaten so fast.

[tjg911]

Originally Posted by meganp

this season is my fourth year growing garlic and I've always left the scapes on my hardnecks as I read that the bulbs store for longer if they're not cut off. I also use them as an indication of when to harvest - ie once they unfurl. I have also been growing on the bulbils to increase my stock and found it well worth the time and effort.

actually it is the opposite, cutting the scape allows for better bulb growth and storage. growing bulbils is a waste of time imo plant garlic using your stock choosing the largest cloves from the largest bulbs. maybe it works the opposite on the other side of the equator, i mean your seasons are opposite... just kidding.

tom

[TZ-OH6]

Is there any evidence that bulbils carry less of a viral load than the parent plant? That would be the only reason I can see to mess with them.

[Durgan]

My take:

The bulbils are virus free, if this is an issue. It takes three years to get mature bulbs.

A Chinese person from the old country told me in China, the scapes are removed when only a few inches long. In fact, they dig the scape out. They claim they are more tender this way, and removing makes no perceptible difference. Often the scapes are tough if allowed to get any appreciable length.

My scapes are almost ready to remove, (100 plants). I will remove half and see if there is any practical difference in the end product. The pods will be removed before going to seed, except for five or so to get seed for maturing bulbils.

I planted 100 seeds in the Fall of 2012 and not one came up. I suspect I left the seeds in the greenhouse and they got too hot and got killed. This year I will be more careful. I know they were viable, since some that fell on the ground produced well, in the wrong location.

The size of the planted clove has little or no bearing on the end size of the bulb. Some years I was short of fat and fit cloves and used what I had, and often the puny clove produced bulbs larger than a large clove.

Harvest in my case will be about the 15 of July this year in Zone 5.

[meganp]

Originally Posted by tjg911

actually it is the opposite, cutting the scape allows for better bulb growth and storage. growing bulbils is a waste of time imo plant garlic using your stock choosing the largest cloves from the largest bulbs. maybe it works the opposite on the other side of the equator, i mean your seasons are opposite... just kidding.

tom

Hello Tom
I grow garlic to eat and unlike you lucky North Americans, there is a very limited selection of hardneck garlic varieties for sale commercially in NZ. Koanga, one of our oldest heirloom seed companies, only sells one hardneck!
I've acquired all my hardneck stock as gifts/trades from other gardeners and/or as bulbs I've bought for consumption (some of which may have been imported from the US!).
With so few cloves in hardneck bulbs, I want to eat them all and to ensure that I don't lose them, growing on the bulbils has been an inexpensive way to increase my stock.
When I first started growing garlic, I trawled the web for information and this article piqued my interest in growing bulbils. They have found that the size and vigour of the bulbs have been improved when grown from bulbils.
I've also read in more than one article/blog that some growers find that their hardneck bulbs store longer in that they don't sprout so quickly so I think that the juries still out on the question of storage ability.
However, this year I'll be able to judge for myself as I intend cutting some of my scapes, I've held off for all this time and want to taste them instead of just reading about how yummy they are

[tjg911]

that's a drag you are so limited in varieties. i would love to ignore the scapes because cutting them is too time consuming. i've been cutting scapes for about a week now. about 10 am today the heat wasn't so bad, i purposely went out early before the sun came out of the clouds full blast, but the humidity was really high so it was a sweat soaked task and the mosquitoes just love to swarm you when they smell the sweat. i really don't care to eat scapes so i just remove them based upon what i have read re storage and bulb size.

garlic is an odd plant so whatever works for you is the best way to go. i should experiment and let some scapes just grow and see if there is a difference but i'm too lazy to track which bulbs were the ones with/without scapes as i grow several varieties.

tom

[meganp]

and at the other end of the hemisphere we went skiing today

[Tormato]

Harvest time for me, is when there are 2-3 green leaves, with the rest being brown. This is usually the first to second week in July. When it is almost time to harvest, I'll look at the weather forecast for the next several days. Any good chance of rain... I'll harvest before then.

Gary

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by meganp

and at the other end of the hemisphere we went skiing today

Gidday Megan,fancy seeing you here out of the hard necks you sent me its only the rounds that are up,as ive only ever grown softneck before i dont know when the bulbils should be showing themselves,are yours up?

And hi joseph,good to see you here too.

[Father'sDaughter]

Garlic scape risotto for dinner last night, and garlic scape pesto on toast this morning. Mmmmmmm.

I have a few remaining scapes on my German Reds, but otherwise they've all been harvested. As for the garlic, the Music didn't fair so well, the German White will be dug this weekend, and Spanish Roja and German Red probably need another week. The ground has been so saturated this spring that I seem to be loosing a lot to rot. If I get a fair amount for eating and, more importantly enough growing stock for next year, I'll settle for that.

[meganp]

Originally Posted by Medbury Gardens

Gidday Megan,fancy seeing you here out of the hard necks you sent me its only the rounds that are up,as ive only ever grown softneck before i dont know when the bulbils should be showing themselves,are yours up?

And hi joseph,good to see you here too.

morning Richard, you mentioned this site to me ages ago and I've only just got around to joining - lurked about for a whileops
the tiny rice grained sized bulbils are unlikely to emerge before Sept, the pea sized ones may come through sooner, depends on how cold our winter is. Planted most of my bulbils in the open ground and the remainder in poly boxes, will be interesting to compare which lot grow better and emergence times.
Several shoots have emerged from my cloves&/rounds too. This was taken a couple of weeks ago
first shoots of 2013.jpg

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by meganp

morning Richard, you mentioned this site to me ages ago and I've only just got around to joining - lurked about for a whileops
the tiny rice grained sized bulbils are unlikely to emerge before Sept, the pea sized ones may come through sooner, depends on how cold our winter is. Planted most of my bulbils in the open ground and the remainder in poly boxes, will be interesting to compare which lot grow better and emergence times.
Several shoots have emerged from my cloves&/rounds too. This was taken a couple of weeks ago
Attachment 35352

They look about the same as mine,bet that snow is all gone now with this warm weather.