Brown Derby, Brown Stripe, Brandystripe ... ???

[travis]

In my list of favorites is an old Tater Mater page where Tom Wagner says, "Some of my earlier releases include Green Zebra, Green Grape, Greenwich, Green Bell Pepper Tomato, Lime Green Salad (Green Elf), Banana Legs, Elberta Girl, Brown Derby, Schimmeig Stoo, Gchimmeig Creg, Greensleeves, Brandystripe, Bown Stripe, Troo Glass, Banana Cream, Snow Berries ..."

I've grown only Green Zebra and Lime Green Salad, but that only stimulates my curiosity and my desire to try out the other "released" Tom Wagner varieties. Yeah, I realize he has hundreds of "unreleased" cultivars ... but I'd be satisfied to grow those he says are "released" first. So, that's the subject of this thread ...

Has anyone grown the following varieties and does anyone have any information about current availability of seeds or plants? Specifically for the following:

Greenwich
Brown Derby
Schimmeig Stoo
Greensleeves
Brandystripe
Brown Stripe
Troo Glass
Banana Cream

Also, if you have grown them, please give a little information about taste, growth habit, yield, disease and heat tolerance.

PV

[carolyn137]

Greenwich, as been listed in SSE Yearbooks
Brown Derby , ditto
Schimmeig Stoo , ditto and available commercially
Greensleeves , has been listed in SSE Yearbooks
Brandystripe ( see below)
Brown Stripe , have never seen it anywhere
Troo Glass , have never seen it anywhere
Banana Cream , listed in SSE Yearbooks and available commercially.

I don't know why Tom says he's released Brandystripe b'c when he sent it to me for trial it had never been offered or listed anywhere and it was one of the 22 varieties he sent. He asked that I not distribute seeds and I haven't, per my promise to him.

It's PL, with stripes of different colors and he sent me both the PL and the angora PL, both of which I still have seeds for, but not for distribution.

Of the ones you listed above I've grown Brandystripe, just discussed, as well as Banana Cream, aka Banana Legs as I see it, as well as Schimmeig Stoo and also Schimmeigh Creg, which you didn't list. And I've restricted my comments just to the ones you listed separately, except for the Creg one, at the end of your post.

For the most part I'd say that most of the varieties that I've grown I'd call novelty types and wouldn't be chosen for taste.

[montanamato]

Greenwich was offered by Baker Creek Heirloom seeds last year...

Jeanne

[travis]

It's rainin' outside and that interupted my yard work ...

... and besides, we just got a new computer hooked up to high speed and I had to try that out :wink:

I did more research (limited) in the 2006 Yearbook and found several of these Tom Wagner types listed in "other colors" as well as some listed in commercial print catalogs.

I also found out that some now are being sold or otherwise distributed under different names than the names Tom gave them.

For example, Brandy Stripe appears to be out there as Summer Cider (**see correction at end of this message); Greensleaves apparently now goes more commonly by Green Sausage; and I think what you find in catalogs as "Cream Sausage" may in fact be Banana Cream ... It's really more than a little disconcerting that several public print catalogs and Internet sales sites do not credit Mr. Wagner with his creations, or even worse, rename them to avoid that courtesy.

Oh, and I also discovered there are some interesting tomatoes in the Yearbook and elsewhere that came directly or evolved from something called Brown Derby Mix that was in the Tater Mater catalog back in the 80s. Some of these are hollow stuffers and others have "brown" flesh or red, gold and green striped skins, etc.

What is even more interesting than the "novelty" aspect of some of these rather beautiful works of art is the keenly introspective and monumentally intense effort put into the breeding work by Tom Wagner. But that's a totally different subject that warrants a separate topic line.

But dig this for example ... apparently, in addition to the well known striped and green-when-ripe types he's released, Wagner has developed a tomato with such high pectin that it can withstand temps below 32*F without going to mush. Such a development would be very beneficial when storing and shipping tomatoes.

He also reportedly has worked extensively with incorporating structural attributes that facilitate better or more thorough pollination, resist catfacing and has worked in other genetic improvements to resist other disorders.

I really find all this stuff really really interesting and pertinent to tomato research and development (not withstanding his work with potatoes), and I intend to look deeper into it to the extent that it goes w-a-y beyond novelty types ("tomato as art") and into the realm of beneficial tomato development ("tomato as major food crop"). 8)

Meanwhile, I'm ordering more of his available varieties to check them out in the 2007 garden (beyond the Green Zebra and Lime Green Salad that I've already enjoyed growing).

PV

** Correction (2:32 pm, Dec. 4): Brandystripe appears linked to "Vintage Wine." I mixed up and said "Summer Cider" above. But Summer Cider is a yellow PL tomato ... Vintage Wine is a striped PL tomato.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Greenwich, as been listed in SSE Yearbooks
Brown Derby , ditto
Schimmeig Stoo , ditto and available commercially
Greensleeves , has been listed in SSE Yearbooks
Brandystripe ( see below)
Brown Stripe , have never seen it anywhere
Troo Glass , have never seen it anywhere
Banana Cream , listed in SSE Yearbooks and available commercially.

I don't know why Tom says he's released Brandystripe b'c when he sent it to me for trial it had never been offered or listed anywhere and it was one of the 22 varieties he sent. He asked that I not distribute seeds and I haven't, per my promise to him.

It's PL, with stripes of different colors and he sent me both the PL and the angora PL, both of which I still have seeds for, but not for distribution.

Of the ones you listed above I've grown Brandystripe, just discussed, as well as Banana Cream, aka Banana Legs as I see it, as well as Schimmeig Stoo and also Schimmeigh Creg, which you didn't list. And I've restricted my comments just to the ones you listed separately, except for the Creg one, at the end of your post.

For the most part I'd say that most of the varieties that I've grown I'd call novelty types and wouldn't be chosen for taste.

I'm growing some Brandywine F1 and F7 and curious about your statement. Taste is subjective - please elaborate.

[3 Olives]

Growing some F2, also.

[carolyn137]

I'm growing some Brandywine F1 and F7 and curious about your statement. Taste is subjective - please elaborate.

****

First, I'm a bit confused b'c Brandywine is OP, not an F1 hybrid. And I'd say that maybe you were thinking of BrandyBoy, which is an F1 hybrid, except that hasn't been around long enough for there to be F7 generation seeds.

Could you please clarify ?

I don't know to whom you're directing your question about taste being subjective. I read thru the above posts twice and couldn't see that comment made.

I did say that many of Tom's varieties I considered to be novelty types and not to be grown for taste,IMO, if that's what you're referring to.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I'm growing some Brandywine F1 and F7 and curious about your statement. Taste is subjective - please elaborate.

****

First, I'm a bit confused b'c Brandywine is OP, not an F1 hybrid. And I'd say that maybe you were thinking of BrandyBoy, which is an F1 hybrid, except that hasn't been around long enough for there to be F7 generation seeds.

Could you please clarify ?

I don't know to whom you're directing your question about taste being subjective. I read thru the above posts twice and couldn't see that comment made.

I did say that many of Tom's varieties I considered to be novelty types and not to be grown for taste,IMO, if that's what you're referring to.

Sorry - 2 Kids talking in the background checking to see who gets on next - meant to say Brandystripe F1, F2, & F7.
Thanks!

[carolyn137]

Sorry - 2 Kids talking in the background checking to see who gets on next - meant to say Brandystripe F1, F2, & F7.
Thanks!

****

I guess I'm still confused b'c Brandystripe is OP, not hybrid, and seeds for it have not been available as I posted above.

Tom never did release that one, either the regular PL one or the PL angora one.

May I ask where you got seeds for Brandystripe? Just curious b'c as I said, as far as I know they haven't been available anywhere and mine are sitting on plates in the back room and per my promise to Tom I never distributed them.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Sorry - 2 Kids talking in the background checking to see who gets on next - meant to say Brandystripe F1, F2, & F7.
Thanks!

****

I guess I'm still confused b'c Brandystripe is OP, not hybrid, and seeds for it have not been available as I posted above.

Tom never did release that one, either the regular PL one or the PL angora one.

May I ask where you got seeds for Brandystripe? Just curious b'c as I said, as far as I know they haven't been available anywhere and mine are sitting on plates in the back room and per my promise to Tom I never distributed them.

I read Tom's Blog on Brandy Stripe and did some reading on Tom Wagner and the work he is doing. I was intrigued by Tom and his endeavors. I expressed my interest to Tom and I asked him if any Brandy Stripe seeds were available. He said they weren't avaiable at this time. He was both kind and generous, and he sent some seeds to me. If any of the F-2 vines have super fruit I am going to send some seeds back to him.

[carolyn137]

I read Tom's Blog on Brandy Stripe and did some reading on Tom Wagner and the work he is doing. I was intrigued by Tom and his endeavors. I expressed my interest to Tom and I asked him if any Brandy Stripe seeds were available. He said they weren't avaiable at this time. He was both kind and generous, and he sent some seeds to me. If any of the F-2 vines have super fruit I am going to send some seeds back to him.


*****

Thanks for the clarification but Tom numbers his growouts for a variety by generation and I think that's what he's referring to with the F7.

Perhaps he's now made Brandystripe into a true F1 hybrid, but he probably told you if that was the case, and it probably isn't if he expects you to send back F2 seeds.

In any case, I'm sure you'll enjoy growing out what you have and I hope you also get fruits that looked like mine, which really were spectacular looking.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I read Tom's Blog on Brandy Stripe and did some reading on Tom Wagner and the work he is doing. I was intrigued by Tom and his endeavors. I expressed my interest to Tom and I asked him if any Brandy Stripe seeds were available. He said they weren't avaiable at this time. He was both kind and generous, and he sent some seeds to me. If any of the F-2 vines have super fruit I am going to send some seeds back to him.


*****

Thanks for the clarification but Tom numbers his growouts for a variety by generation and I think that's what he's referring to with the F7.

Perhaps he's now made Brandystripe into a true F1 hybrid, but he probably told you if that was the case, and it probably isn't if he expects you to send back F2 seeds.

In any case, I'm sure you'll enjoy growing out what you have and I hope you also get fruits that looked like mine, which really were spectacular looking.

I was asking for an elaboration on taste and was very vaque.

My F-2 is Brandy Wine X F-9 Brandy Stripe
My F-7 is Brandy Stripe (potato leaf, pink/yellow stripes, not wooly) Semi determinate

I am looking forward to seeing how these turn out. Thanks for the well wishes. Best wishes to you, also.

[carolyn137]

I was asking for an elaboration on taste and was very vaque.


****

I missed that in my reading of your first post, as well as the other traits you asked about.

There are no tolerances against any diseases and that includes the foliage diseases which are the most common.

I found production with the PL and RL Brandystripes to be good, not exceptional.

But I must be honest and also say that while the fruits are particularly beautiful that I didn't find taste to be that good. I've trialed quite a few varieties for Tom in the past and many of them are what I'd called novelty types b'c of fruit appearance, and I found that most of those didn't have tastes that appealed to me that much.

Of course your opinion might well be different than mine b'c taste is personal.

[3 Olives]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I was asking for an elaboration on taste and was very vaque.


****

I missed that in my reading of your first post, as well as the other traits you asked about.

There are no tolerances against any diseases and that includes the foliage diseases which are the most common.

I found production with the PL and RL Brandystripes to be good, not exceptional.

But I must be honest and also say that while the fruits are particularly beautiful that I didn't find taste to be that good. I've trialed quite a few varieties for Tom in the past and many of them are what I'd called novelty types b'c of fruit appearance, and I found that most of those didn't have tastes that appealed to me that much.

Of course your opinion might well be different than mine b'c taste is personal.

Do you recall the germination rates? I sowed 10 different tomato varieties this spring and the F-2 are the most vigorous by far.

[carolyn137]

Do you recall the germination rates? I sowed 10 different tomato varieties this spring and the F-2 are the most vigorous by far.

****

I'm sorry I don't b/c that was many years ago but what I grew as Brandystripe is not what Tom sent you in terms of a backcross.